PDA

View Full Version : Automatic Liquid Bleach Dispenser



cwstnsko
05-18-2006, 07:47 PM
Does anyone have any experience with or know anything about this dispenser

http://www.ezpool.com

The owners / installation manual can be found here.

http://www.ezpool.com/liquidator/Liquidator%20Instruction%20and%20Use%20Manual.pdf

I haven't been able to find anyone selling it online, so I'm not sure what it might cost.

cwstnsko
05-18-2006, 08:18 PM
I did find it online at one place, the small version is about $135 at that source.

I'm thinking of ordering one for a friends pool. We just brought him down from 1100+ CH and 150+ CYA by doing a 90%+ water change. I've got him sold on BBB. He can't afford a SWG at the moment and we have good, fresh 12.5% chlorine available locally for under $2.50/gallon.

On of my concerns would be how quickly the bleach would breakdown at 115 degrees this summer

CarlD
05-19-2006, 01:38 AM
I had the competitor, the LiquiMate and it was a worthless piece of junk. It barely worked, and not enough to justify it.

tmmort
05-19-2006, 02:12 AM
Here's (http://truetex.com/poolcontrol.htm) a do-it-yourself computer based pool chlorinator controlled by a linux system.

CarlD
05-19-2006, 08:03 AM
I'm enjoying reading this! You've explained the chemistry more simply than most. I'm a little stuck in the programming section--I don't know C with its own peculiar references, or if this is Unix script, and my Unix is 10 years ago--so I recognize "grep" but don't remember much about the command :confused:.

I also thought moving the electronics out of the pump bunker was wise.

But I am surprised at your choice of bucket. I would have thought that a blue chlorine carboy, with a modified top and the output line running through it to the bottom of the carboy (sort of like the LiquiMate scheme) would be FAR safer and remove one source of catastrophic failure.

Another easy safety item would be to have the injection be tee'd past a ball valve devoted solely to it. The system could easily isolate out the injection with one turn. That, and a spill catcher could reduce risk enormously.

Since you choose to dilute the solution to reduce all sorts of issues, why not just start with laundry bleach? There you are getting 5.25% to 6% solution which doesn't break down as fast and is far, FAR safer to handle. True 12.5%, as you and PoolDoc have noted, is far more dangerous...

Meanwhile I am enjoying this. I can't WAIT to see if you now have a secure Internet connection so you can check your pool while travelling! For me, some of the issues--like adjusting pH once or twice a week are non-issues--a lot of technology to reduce a little bit of work. But while travelling, the whole situation changes.

But I'll have to read more later--I do need to get to work this morning.

cwstnsko
05-19-2006, 09:52 AM
The automated pool control is very cool.

The LiquiMate looks trivially simple. A suction side draw, a control valve and a bucket of bleach. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that it wouldn't be a reliable way of delivering a consistent amount of chlorine.

The Liquidator looks to be a bit more complex, two lines, pressure differential draw. Check valve, flow meter, Float valves to regulate water levels and a slightly different approach involving water and liquid chlorine in the same container but not mixed (if that is possible, I'll have to try an experiment.) The difference in sphistication may result in a more reliable delivery.

I just need to decide if it's worth $150 to find out.

I have blown more money on less noble causes :)

dep78737
05-19-2006, 10:47 AM
You can get an Aquarite SWG for under $700 on ebay. May have a pretty resaonable payback at $150 for the pump plus the cost of bleach, especially if you DIY the installation.

tmmort
05-19-2006, 05:47 PM
I'm enjoying reading this! You've explained the chemistry more simply than most.
...


Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression it was my site. Just googled "linux+pool+control" and came up with it. Perhaps we can invite the author over here - he also has some interesting :eek: comments about CYA in pools.

Amir
05-20-2006, 01:59 PM
CWSTNSKO,
Where did you find it online? It seems like an elegant simple solution worth a $150 try and easy to remove and install. I live in Mayland and our pool is not in a very sunny area so my cl does not dissipate as fast. I would like to see if I can use this with a very low CYA (max 20 ppm) - a compromise between the Linux controled and higher cya needs of manual bleach control.
Amir

duraleigh
05-20-2006, 02:52 PM
The "liquidator" intrigued me as well so I called both the manufacturer and a dealer.

The manufacturer said it worked perfectly and you only had to clean it somewhere between 6 months and five years. :D

The dealer gave me a much better balanced scenario. In essence, there's no free lunch. You get to trade off adding bleach every day for cleaning the unit thoroughly around once a month....depends somewhat on the hardness of your water.

Second drawback....once you set up the unit to meter out the Cl evenly, you must constantly adjust it because the Cl is diluted continuously as the pool water is passed over it. That may not be a big deal, but for me, that's a deal breaker.

The website is hasapool.com and there is a dealer list to the right on their home page. I still think it's a nice idea but, when I add up the additional work it presents me, I'll just stay with Clorox. :)

mwsmith2
05-20-2006, 03:02 PM
I'm enjoying reading this! You've explained the chemistry more simply than most.
I wouldn't be too quick to fall all over this guy. Remember the "Cyanurics:Benefactor or Bomb" article? He's directly cited that article as the source for his thinking.

I found Ben's response to that article:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=756

Also, I'd be somewhat concerned keeping low levels of Cl in the pool, because of his belief that you "don't need much". Sure you don't, if nobody uses the pool. You have to have some Cl reserve in there. Coupling bather load + sun = a rather scary possiblity of swimming in a non-sanitized pool.

Personally, a SWC takes care of all my needs with virtually zero maintenance. I know it's safe, and I know it works. Bleach works equally well, it just takes a little more maintenance to keep your levels up. I had considered a pressurized Cl feed at one point, but decided the negatives far outweighed the positives.

Michael

Amir
05-20-2006, 03:38 PM
The constant adjusting will be a problem for me too. That must be the reason the guy with Linux used a pump. I wonder what will be the response form the manufacturer. As far as low level of chlorine, we have a very light bather load and as I said not much sun lots of trees. As long that I can maintain 1 pmm level with low CYA I think it will be safe. I had in mind - if using a chlorine feeder system to run the pump several times (5-8) a day for 1 to 2 hour intervals rather than just running it for 6-8 hours constantly. What attracted me to this device was the simplicity and if the CL levels are kept at around 1-1.5 and have a variance of +/- 0.5 I think it will be safe (please correct me if I am wrong) given our light load of bathers.

Amir

cwstnsko
05-21-2006, 01:17 PM
This is the place I found it for sale online. Just type liquidator into the search box and hit search.

http://poolandspawarehouse.t324.com/search.asp

I still need to experiment with maintaining water and bleach in a container without having them mix like the ezpool site describes. This would be the key to consistant behavior from the liquidator

CarlD
05-21-2006, 11:01 PM
I keep thinking of getting a peristalitic pump and a timer. A rate that would add about 1-2 FC/day would probably keep it VERY clear.

drumr
05-22-2006, 07:12 PM
Just thought I might chime in. I work in an aluminum extrusion factory with an anodizing line, which is basically a water and liquid chemical based line that puts a coating on the aluminum extrusions. In our various tanks we use these small metering pumps to add whatever chemical that the tank gets in precise dosages. We had several old ones lying around so I asked my boss if I could have one and he let me. It's called a Flex-Flo electric metering pump and it is adjustable from about 1 gallon per day all the way up to 74 gallons per day. All I do is stick one of the hoses in the bottle of bleach and the other I have got going into my skimmer. I have it turned down as low as it will go and it will empty a 96 oz bottle of bleach in about 16 hours. I was actually surprised at how well it works. It is very heavy duty (made for sulfuric/hydrochloric acid use). I have used it for the last 2 seasons and have been very pleased with it.....

And best of all....it was free!!

Amir
05-23-2006, 07:03 PM
I talked to the manufacturer today regarding the concentration of chlorine as the level goes down. The official answer is that the concentration remains virtually the same until there is only 0.5 gallon of chlorine left - something to do with the way chlorine and water react together. The only issue is if you have very high alkalinity and calcium, it causes excessive scaling on the floats that needs to be cleaned out. The person I talked to lives in CA and has the 8 gallon version and keeps 5-6 ppm concentration with 100 CYA level. By the way they have certification for this unit to be used in public and commercial installations and if the concentration would not have been constant, they could not get this certification. All in all, I think I will order one and give it a try.
Amir

Amir
05-23-2006, 07:35 PM
I found the NSF certification
http://www.nsf.org/Certified/Pools/Listings.asp?Company=1R110&Standard=050

Hawksnestbay
05-24-2006, 07:38 PM
Greetings All- I actually am beginning my 3rd season using a "Liquimate" with a 5 Gallon barrel of Sodium Hypo 12.5. I have a 35,000 gallon vinyl lined pool. I am not in the pool business in any way. It works great for me.

I started using it after I went to the BBB method, and saw how clear my pool can be. I have a high mineral {mangenese} content/low PH {5.5} coming from my well water in Massachusetts. I have reduced my stabilizer level to 35, and can increase my PH to about 7.2, so the high PH of "Pool Bleach" is just one less thing to drive down my PH.

The Liquimate, set at the #1 {lowest setting}, meters just enough bleach for me to keep my FC at 1.0 continuously, supplementing my levels with 1/2 to 1 gallon of 12.5% in the evening, depending upon bather load. I run my pump 6 hours/ on 6 hours off from May till September. My pool is crystal clear. No polyquat, no clarifier, no voodoo.

I know Carl D. does not like this unit, and he is extremely knowledgable, but for $89.00 it has been fool proof for me. I even bought a back up, thinking it would break, but it has not missed a beat.

CarlD
05-25-2006, 12:42 AM
Hey, Hawk!

I WISH it worked for me as it has worked for you. It would have been great. Believe me, I would have liked that. I'm glad at least it works SOMEWHERE.

Amir
05-25-2006, 06:25 PM
Hawksnestbay,
I have the same size pool and similar conditons. How many Gallons of Sodium Hypo do you use per week (12.5%)?
Thanks

Hawksnestbay
05-25-2006, 08:35 PM
Once the temperature gets above 80 and we start swimming every day, My 5 gallon barrel lasts 7 or 8 days. When I change it, it usually has about a gallon left in it, which I use to supplement in the evening. I usually keep a routine of changing the barrel on Sunday evening, So I can remember before it empties out. If it does empty, it just adds air to the line until I get to it.

Brock
05-26-2006, 02:19 PM
WOW, 4 gallons a week of 12.5%? I am lucky if I use 1 gallon of 5% a week, granted I have an indoor 16k pool. I am thinking of trying this CL feeder but I am wonder if I can slow it down enough for me. Maybe if I dump in one gallon of 5% and 4 gallons of water and set it on 1?

Amir
05-26-2006, 02:46 PM
I had ordered this but canceled my order when I saw the chlorine demand! I am going to wait until they fill the pool this weekend (fully renovated pool) and measure my chlorine demand using bleach before ordering.
Amir

Hawksnestbay
05-27-2006, 12:02 PM
Hello Again-

I did not mention that we heat our pool to 85 degrees. I believe the temperature increases demand slightly.

1. Assume your 16,000 gallon pool needs twice as much, so 2 gallons per week of 5%. We swim every day, all day, as long as the sun is shining. 4 kids, their friends.
2. I am thrilled with 4 gallons per week, because almost never shock, I do not use anything else besides a sequestering agent and Ascorbic acid, my pool looks like glass, and a 5 gallon barrell at Namco is usually $8.99 plus deposit so my "miles per gallon" $$ is low. I wish it used less, but it will require cleaner children, which is a topic for another thread.

Amir
05-27-2006, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the details. I have a 35000 gallon pool and was hoping to use regular 6% bleach. The nearest Namco is 40 min drive. if the demand is too high for my use, I might go the SCG route.
Regards
Amir
PS they are plastering now - will have water this afternoon!

LearningCurve
06-23-2006, 07:21 PM
[QUOTE=Brock]WOW, 4 gallons a week of 12.5%? I am lucky if I use 1 gallon of 5% a week, QUOTE]

When I entertained this idea, I was thinking of an IV drip:D

Brock
06-23-2006, 09:57 PM
Same here I use about 3/4 gallon a week depending on load.

Just for the record I switched to 5% this year and guess what I use the same amount as I did with 12.5% from the pool store at 1/2 the cost. My guess is the 12.5% had lost most of it power and was darn near 5-6% when I used it.

medvampire
06-24-2006, 07:14 AM
CarlD

I keep thinking of getting a peristalitic pump and a timer. A rate that would add about 1-2 FC/day would probably keep it VERY clear.

My thoughts as well. I can get one from work that is 12v. My Cl demand at this time is 2 cups per day. These pumps are very good at accurate delivery so set it to deliver 2 to 3 doses per day with a timer. Since it is a peristalitic type pump back drain is not a problem you so could add a Y to the pump plumbing and feed directly in to the return line. The peristalitic pump is DC so you could vary with a variable resistor or timeing for delivery volume.
I looked at the Linux thing and seemed a lot of work and little pay back. You still need to test so why bother. If it provided for a Cl dilevery based on Cl level I may be inclined to build it but if I am gonna test each day its not too hard to turn a knob to vary delivery.
Steve

aquarium
06-24-2006, 08:51 AM
I'm considering two of these (http://www.blue-white.com/Products/tankSystems.htm), one for bleach and one for muriatic acid.

http://www.blue-white.com/images/flexstar3_277wd.jpg

I have the Intermatic timers with the yellow disk:

http://www.intermatic.com/images/products/t104r3.jpg

Similar to that image, but two since I have a booster pump for the Polaris.

My thought was to hook the peristalic pumps for the chemicals to the Intermatic timer electric lugs for the main pool pump so they couldn't turn on unless the pool pump is running. My concern is that some bleach and acid would be squirted into an empty PVC pipe upon being energized at the beginning of the cycle. How are bleach and acid feeders normally timed?

catnip
09-03-2006, 05:09 PM
I'm considering two of these (http://www.blue-white.com/Products/tankSystems.htm), one for bleach and one for muriatic acid.

http://www.blue-white.com/images/flexstar3_277wd.jpg

I have the Intermatic timers with the yellow disk:

http://www.intermatic.com/images/products/t104r3.jpg

Similar to that image, but two since I have a booster pump for the Polaris.

My thought was to hook the peristaltic pumps for the chemicals to the Intermatic timer electric lugs for the main pool pump so they couldn't turn on unless the pool pump is running. My concern is that some bleach and acid would be squirted into an empty PVC pipe upon being energized at the beginning of the cycle. How are bleach and acid feeders normally timed?

aquarium, did you proceed any further on this idea? I too am looking for a highly reliable liquid chlorine feeder that can safely operate unattended with only weekly maintenance visits.

aquarium
09-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Not yet. I'd like to place the tank inside because of the high air temps here in the summer. But correspondence with the manufacturer indicates that it's not an airtight lid, nor is it set up to vent the tank to the outside.

keithw
05-15-2007, 05:13 PM
I am going to rehash this old thread. Has anyone found an inexpensive, reliable way to automatically dispense small amounts of bleach into a pool? I have a 6000ish gal pool that I would estimate that I add about a cup of bleach a day to maintain. It would be nice if I could automate that process.

cruzmisl
05-15-2007, 10:48 PM
Weird, I was just looking at this old thread too. I think I am going to give the Haas thing a try and see how it goes. Adding bleach all the time is a PITA and I don't want to go SWG, too much money. This seems like a good compromise.

Ohm_Boy
05-16-2007, 12:34 AM
There is a European patent for using a dishwasher rinse-aid dispenser as a chlorine (or bromine) dispenser. It's evidently designed to dump it's contents over many cycles, so it could be used to dispense bleach a bit at a time.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1543763.html

drumr
05-19-2007, 10:29 AM
I haven't gotten my little pump out of winter storage yet, but will probably this next week. Its just a small metering pump which works very well. When I set it back up I will take a picture. One hose goes it the bottle of bleach and the other in the skimmer, and set it as low as it will go.

JD