Time to Take My Pool Back from Leslie's

[pentachris]

I've been through 3 or 4 green-to-clean and yellow-out treatments this year. My pool looks like crap. :(

Actually, more like urine than crap, but you get the idea...

Anyway, I just ordered my K-2006C kit from Amazon. It's time to get my pool back. I've got plenty of Power Powder Pro, as well as a bunch of other stuff that I'm finding out is pretty unnecessary. I'm kind of concerned that my filter isn't really doing what it's supposed to do, so I may need some guidance on that. I'll keep reading around here, learning what I can without asking too many questions. But when the test kit comes in, I'm sure I'll have plenty to ask. Any words of wisdom in preparation are welcome. I look forward to being a part of this community!

[PoolDoc]

Not quite sure what you are asking, but it sounds like the Pool Chart is the place to start.

Ben

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+ It's much easier to answer your questions, when we have the details about your pool in one place. We often 'waste' the first few posts back and forth collecting information. So, please complete our new Pool Chart form -- it takes about 30 seconds, but will save much more than that.
Pool Chart Entry Form (http://goo.gl/cNPUO)

[pentachris]

I filled out the chart. Not really asking anything yet. I assumed that the right place to start here was with accurate test results from the recommended testing products, so I was going to wait on that to come in from Amazon before I started trying to do anything. This was mainly intended as just a "get established" post.

I threw four pounds of 73% NaClO in and scrubbed yesterday evening. Right now, the pool looks blue and cloudy. It's got a LOT of dead algae in it. This seems to be a problem in my clean up efforts; I'm not sure if my filter is operating efficiently. I started vacuuming it before I scrubbed it, and saw the algae blowing through the outlet valves, right back into the pool. I went to Leslie's and got some floc, thinking that would help me get the algae out. The instruction label didn't say that I should vacuum it to waste, which I thought I should. Googling the product actually lead me here. That's when i started reading some things on this site and these forums that made a lot of sense.

Anyway, if you think you can help me from here instead of waiting on the test kit to come in, I can provide you with some basic water info that may not be as accurate as what the new test will show. I guess the sooner the better. My wife wants to have some of her girlfriends over to swim on Aug 11. Seeing as how I enjoy looking at women in swimwear, I'm eager to oblige. :)

Thanks for your response and offer to assist.

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Sorry - in my previous post, I meant calcium hypochlorite (Power Powder Pro), not sodium hypochlorite.

[PoolDoc]

Having algae blow back into the pool is a problem. If the algae is DEAD, this indicates you have a filter problem. If the algae is ALIVE, you'd be better off vacuuming to waste.

Looked at your Pool Chart data.

If you want a clear pool on Aug 4, you probably should:

1. Vacuum the algae to waste;
2. Purchase and use a SINGLE dose of a locally available pool clarifier;
3. Open and check your filter for adequate sand, and for lumps and channels.
4. Report COMPLETE test results (do you have a K2006, or have one ordered?)

[pentachris]

If you want a clear pool on Aug 4, you probably should:

1. Vacuum the algae to waste;
2. Purchase and use a SINGLE dose of a locally available pool clarifier;
3. Open and check your filter for adequate sand, and for lumps and channels.
4. Report COMPLETE test results (do you have a K2006, or have one ordered?)

It's not quite that desperate - I'm shooting for Aug 11, not Aug 4. With that in mind, are your steps still the best course of action? If so...

1. Should I go ahead and use the Leslie's Super Floc that I bought before I vacuum to waste?

2. I've dumped a lot of clarifier into the pool in the past week or so - a full quart of Leslie's Clear and Perfect (one oz is supposed to treat 4000 gallons, use more for very cloudy water), and a few weeks ago a bunch of Leslie's PoolPerfect+PhosFree. Continue with more?

3. See my picture links below. It looks to me like I'll have to cut two pieces of PVC to open the filter; am I wrong?

4. I just ordered the K2006 from Amazon last night, as mentioned above. I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet; I'd guess it won't be here until next week.

Here's (http://pentachris.com/images/poolPix/120731/pool.jpg) how my pool looks right now.

Here's (http://pentachris.com/images/poolPix/120731/hardware.jpg) the hardware I'm working with, relevant to my question number 2 above. BTW, I've never used the New Water Cycler you see in this photo. I moved into this home with all this already installed, and when I researched the New Water, it didn't really seem advantageous.

Here's info on my filter (http://pentachris.com/images/poolPix/120731/filter.jpg) and pump (http://pentachris.com/images/poolPix/120731/pump.jpg), just because I didn't have them handy when I filled out the chart.

Thanks, Ben.

[PoolDoc]

I'll look at the other, later, but a BIG WARNING right now:

If you've already used a "bunch" of clarifier, do NOT use any more, and do NOT use any floc.

Regarding the filter: if it was DEAD algae that was blowing through the filter, yes, you probably should open it. If you want to be sure, get some DE filter powder, put a couple of cups in the skimmer, and then see if that blows through. If so, your filter definitely needs service.

(PS: the "pump" photo is actually the pump MOTOR; you need a picture of the pump wet end, too.)

[pentachris]

Regarding the clarifier - understood.

Regarding the DE filter powder - I'll try to do that tomorrow after work.

Regarding the pump (motor) - sorry, if it's important, I'll try to find other identifying marks or tags.

Thanks again. I really want to get out of the "pool store cycle."

[waterbear]

RE: pump motor. It's an up rated 1 hp round flange (so it's a 3/4 HP pump in reality) A.O Smith replacement motor (not the original pump motor). The pump itself is most likely a Hayward or a Jacuzzi Magnum series since they all use round flange motors. My guess would be one of the Hayward pumps given the Hayward sand filter.

[BigDave]

...It looks to me like I'll have to cut two pieces of PVC to open the filter; am I wrong...Yep, you'll have to cut the pipes to open the filter. If you install Unions when you put it back together, you'll be able to open it without cutting in the future.

[pentachris]

I went to Leslie's on Saturday to replace my vac hose (warranty claim - I still had the box stating "3 year warranty" that was dated 11/09 - sweet!).

I forgot to get DE powder to check the filter while I was there. :(

I vacuumed the dead algae to waste, probably dropping my water level by 12 inches or so. I refilled and put in 2 lbs of Power Powder Pro to try to keep it sanitized. That chlorine is now gone.

My K2006 test kit was delivered today. I've got pretty much 0 FC & CC; I added probably 15 little scoops of that powder and it barely gave the water a faint tinge of color.

My PH is 7.4.

Alakanity is 110.

CH is ~700. Yes, really. I followed the instructions in the Taylor testing instructional video about avoiding interference in a CH test. A few weeks ago, Leslie's told me they couldn't accurately read my CH and sent me home with a bottle of "Metal Free." After doing some reading around here, I wonder if it's because of the insane amount of Power Powder Pro (calcium hypochlorite) I've put in my pool this year (not exactly sure how much, but it's been over 100 lbs). Trichlor skimmer tabs don't seem to be cutting it, either, so I guess it's time to switch to bleach.

CYA was less than 30. Of course, it's hard to tell when it's outside of the range of your testing equipment, but if I had to guess based on level of opacity, I'd guess ~10. Maybe the trichlor tabs would be sufficient if my CYA were better??

Currently, the water looks clear, with a few spots of dead algae (pale sand-colored silt) on the bottom. I've got an idea of where I need to go from here, but I'll leave it to the experts to guide me. I will go ahead and ask a question, though - does it make a difference whether I use liquid or granulated CYA? Liquid has been MUCH more user-friendly in the past for me.

My wife is having folks over this Saturday (5 days from now), so it's imperative that I keep it swimmable until then, or return it to swimmability by then.

Thanks for the help and advice.

[PoolDoc]

; I added probably 15 little scoops of that powder and it barely gave the water a faint tinge of color.
Don't do that; if it doesn't turn pink with 2 scoops, it's not going to turn pink. If you want to confirm a reading, use OTO drops, which are not super accurate but are extremely reliable.


CH is ~700. Yes, really. I followed the instructions in the Taylor testing instructional video about avoiding interference in a CH test. A few weeks ago, Leslie's told me they couldn't accurately read my CH and sent me home with a bottle of "Metal Free." After doing some reading around here, I wonder if it's because of the insane amount of Power Powder Pro (calcium hypochlorite)
Actually, with a sand filter, if you'll remove any chemicals or tabs from your skimmer, you can LOWER your CH by adding the cal hypo via the skimmer. You must be 100% certain that there are no OTHER chemicals the cal hypo will contact, before you do this! And do it cautiously -- small doses -- at first, to make sure the calcium doesn't blow through your filter.



CYA was less than 30. Of course, it's hard to tell when it's outside of the range of your testing equipment, but if I had to guess based on level of opacity, I'd guess ~10. Maybe the trichlor tabs would be sufficient if my CYA were better??
If you have access to a Sams Club, go get a box of their PoolBrand 1# dichlor bags. Otherwise, order dichlor from Amazon:Kem-Tek Dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/poolbooks). The dichlor can be dumped straight into your pool, and will raise both CYA and chlorine. Dichlor is cheaper than liquid CYA . . . even if you count ONLY the CYA content, and not the chlorine.


My wife is having folks over this Saturday (5 days from now), so it's imperative that I keep it swimmable until then, or return it to swimmability by then.
Use the cal hypo -- test the small doses and then work up to 5 ppm overnight skimmer doses as quickly as you can. Ironically dosing this way will actually INCREASE your pool's clarity, though you'll have to backwash more often.

[BigDave]

If you like liquid CYA and you don't mind paying the price, it's fine to use.

An alternative is dichlor, it will chlorinate (you need chlorine!) and add CYA. Dichlor will tend to push pH down so if you use it, have some Borax on hand to return the pH. I would be very careful about raising pH above where it is now (7.4) with the CH you've got. One pound of dichlor will raise your FC by a little more than 3ppm and your CYA by 3ppm.

OOPS! PoolDoc was posting at the same time as me. His advice about dropping your CH by dosing cal-hypo in the skimmer sounds good.

[pentachris]

Actually, with a sand filter, if you'll remove any chemicals or tabs from your skimmer, you can LOWER your CH by adding the cal hypo via the skimmer. You must be 100% certain that there are no OTHER chemicals the cal hypo will contact, before you do this! And do it cautiously -- small doses -- at first, to make sure the calcium doesn't blow through your filter.

Other chemicals such as what? How would I tell?

[PoolDoc]

Other chemicals such as what? How would I tell?


skimmer tabs

. . . or ANYTHING else. Basically, your skimmer needs to be clean and empty of anything except pool water, when you add cal hypo. AND, you must NOT have a feeder of any kind between the skimmer and the filter. (Downstream of the filter is OK.)

[pentachris]

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to other chemicals dissolved in the pool water.

I'll keep it sanitized with the cal-hypo for now, going through the skimmer slowly and watching the outlets for blow-through. Maybe it will tell me on the pail, but does anyone know what the dosage rate is (X ounces will increase Y gallons of water by Z ppm free chlorine or whatever)? It's 73%.

My wife has a Sam's membership with her employer, so we'll make time soon to go get some dichlor.

I'll post back here with updates/questions.

Thanks again.

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Never mind my dosage question. I came home for lunch and found the answer on the bucket. X=1, Y=5000, Z=1.

I slowly added 12 oz through the skimmer closer to the filter and did not notice any blow-through.

I am starting to see a tinge of yellow around the edges.

I'll test, add more cal-hypo if necessary to get to 5 ppm and brush well this evening.

[pentachris]

Sample taken at dusk (87.0 degrees F, just for grins and giggles), showed 1.2 ppm FC. I added 16 oz of cal-hypo, waited an hour, and tested to confirm that I'd raised it by the desired ~ 4 ppm. It came in at 5.4 ppm.

I also brushed it well at about 5:30.

You know, if I'd just gotten rid of the dead algae to begin with, paid attention to the instructions on the cal-hypo bucket, and used that to sanitize the whole time, I probably wouldn't be in this mess. Imagine that - read the instructions! :/

[PoolDoc]

You know, if I'd just gotten rid of the dead algae to begin with, paid attention to the instructions on the cal-hypo bucket, and used that to sanitize the whole time, I probably wouldn't be in this mess. Imagine that - read the instructions! :/

Not quite.

If you follow the instructions on the bucket, you'll eventually end up with massive calcium levels over time. Adding via the skimmer will avoid that, but the companies aren't going to explain, because of the hazard if you put cal hypo in skimmer that has a trichlor tab or something else in it.

[pentachris]

Tested this evening at 0.8 ppm FC, 0.2 ppm CC.

I added 16 oz of cal-hypo again, and this time I noticed that the water coming out of the outlet was cloudy. I'm guessing that's the blow-through, and I'll need to replace the filter sand. With the pipe cutting required, and the advantage of installing unions as was previously mentioned, I'm thinking I'll probably hire this job out.

[PoolDoc]

I'm guessing that's the blow-through

Don't jump to that conclusion. Not all of the calcium in cal hypo is insolubles that can be filtered. To actually test your filter, get couple of pounds of DE powder, and put THAT in your skimmer (it won't react with cal hypo). If the DE blows through, it's a filter problem. Otherwise not.

Your CH level is so high, the soluble portion of cal hypo can still trigger some precipitation, visible as cloudiness.

ALSO, a sand filter will not grab the cal hypo insolubles well just after it's backwashed. When using cal hypo this way, you want to back wash as much as you have to -- 7 - 10 psi pressure rise, but no more than that.

[pentachris]

Makes sense. Speaking of which...

Should I be seeing pressure rise as I'm removing CH from the water? My pressure has been pretty constant for several days. How does adding cal-hypo to the skimmer remove CH from the water?

[PoolDoc]

You precipitate it out on your filter, instead of onto the bottom of your pool. You'll know it's working, if your backwash is sludgy, thick, and kind of a grayish tan.

[pentachris]

Yesterday morning, I vacuumed the pool. I saw a fair amount of dead algae blowing through, but I just wanted to get it decent for the get-together my wife hosted yesterday afternoon. I was obviously filtering at least some of it though, because when I was done the pressure had risen by about 9 PSI. So, I backwashed and rinsed.

The water was cloudy for the party, but it went over well. So, now I'm over the short term hurdle, and ready to do what needs to be done to solve problems long term.

I bought some DE powder today. I put 2 cups in the skimmer, and about 15-30 seconds later, there were plumes of white pouring from the outlets. I also tested the CH level today, and it measured ~800.

So, regarding the filter: Is it worth it to try the "sand revitalizer" stuff? Is it worth it to put a cup or two of Fiber Clear in after every backwash and see if that forms a filter on top of the sand? Or should I bite the bullet and plan to replace the sand? (If I cut the PVC pipes to open the filter, it makes sense to me to go ahead and replace the sand, regardless of any other tricks there might be to get it filtering properly after I get the valve removed. I don't know if there are any, I'm just saying that I think it would be silly to remove the valve and not replace the sand.)

Regarding the water chemistry: I got 24# of dichlor from Sam's. Should I go ahead and switch from cal-hypo in the skimmer to that? Should I wait until I get the filter problem resolved first? I'm guessing if I need to replace the sand, it'll be at least a week before that gets done. Like I mentioned before, that's a job I'll probably hire out because of the plumbing involved.

Thanks!

[pentachris]

It's now about 4 hours after putting the DE powder in my filter. The pressure has increased about 5 PSI, WAY more than it normally does in that short of a time period. Just throwing that out there as another bit of information that might be relevant.

[PoolDoc]

I bought some DE powder today. I put 2 cups in the skimmer, and about 15-30 seconds later, there were plumes of white pouring from the outlets. I also tested the CH level today, and it measured ~800.

So, regarding the filter: Is it worth it to try the "sand revitalizer" stuff?

If DE blows through the filter, I can think of 3 possible causes:

1. There's not enough sand OR it's not filter sand (too coarse).

2. There are CHANNELS in the sand, that allow the water to bypass most of the sand -- can happen if the sand gets gummed up.

3. There is something wrong with the structure of the filter; in the case of DE bypassing, a misplaced air relief line can do it.


BUT . . . all of these problems can only be fixed by opening the filter.