Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump operational time

[rcurlee]

I just had a new Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump professionally installed for my 15,000 gallon in ground pool with spill over spa in the Atlanta, GA area. It replaced a 7 year old Hayward AO Smith 2 HP single speed super pump 3450 Watt which is the second pump over 12+ years.

I was interested in spending a few $$ more for a variable speed pump after reading how I can save on wattage use and run the pump at lower speeds and save wear and tear on the pump life. Replacements aren't cheap. Pentair also provided a 3 year warranty on the Intelliflo VS pump with professional installation. I like the multiple time of day programming to set different speeds and start/stop time. The push button pad, digital readout for menu and settings is easy to use and read. I have an older mechanical dual timer that I used to set a single start and stop time for the main pump and 3/4 HP Booster pump for the Polaris 280 cleaner. The Intelliflo pump is about 22 feet from the closest skimmer (2 total).

My main question is how long should I run the pump during the day? 24 X 7 with varying speeds in the day? Or can I just set it to run for X hours over the day at X speed similar to what I did with the single speed Hayward pump over the years? I've let it run overnight on Speed 1 at 750 RPM and then kick in at 1650 RPM from 8:30 - 11:00, then 2,500 RPM until 4:00 then 1,650 RPM until 6 PM and then back to 750 RPM until 8:30 AM. Is overnight redundant? Also, what speed do I need to run the booster pump for the Polaris cleaner?
Any suggestions on how to calculate and determine the GPM flow that processes at different speeds for my pool to turn over the water?

Thanks for any comments.

[mas985]

First, GPM and turnover is irrelevant to run time so don't even worry about that.

The amount of run time you need is mostly determined by how clean (dirt free) you want the pool which is subjective and can only be determined by your own definition of what a clean pool looks like. So unfortunately, there is no one size fits all answer to run time.

But most pools don't need more than about 4 hours per day of run time. A split run time is more effective at skimming debris if your controller allows for that.

The most efficient (gallons/watt-hr) speed for the Intelliflo is around 1000 RPM. So you can start with about 6 hours of run time at 1000 RPM and see if the pool stays clean. But unfortunately, the flow rate is also quite low so the skimmers may not capture enough debris so you may need a higher speed for a short period of time for just skimming.

Some experimentation may be required to optimize the run time.

[PoolDoc]

Was your question answered satisfactorily?

[rcurlee]

Thanks.

This was a helpful response as I was starting out with the new Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump. I leave my pool open year round with a leaf cover on top for the non-swimming months. I have been experimenting with running the new Intelliflo variable pump at lower speeds. It sure runs quiet compared to the old Hayward single speed in its best days. I like the Antifreeze setting which I increased the RPM up to 1300 RPM during the winter months which are typically low 20's in the coldest mornings. But this winter we had a few days that hit in single digits around 5 degrees. I didn't have a problem with freezing when the pool turned on automatically and kept running.

Now that the weather is warming up more, I am still tweaking the variable speed and time to run. I've been running it at around 1350 RPM and kick it up to around 2500 RPM when the Polaris Sweeper pump turns on to clean the pool. I have run the Pool pump at 1350 when the Polaris pump turned on around Noon for a couple of hours and it didn't seem to clean or move through the pool as effectively. Not sure if that is because of colder water with water temp in the 40's, or it needs the extra RPM power.

Regardless, my pool balance for Chlorine and PH have been right on target with litle deviation over winter with the new variable speed pump. Again, now with warmer days, I will see if I need to adjust time and RPM when the water temp gets into the 70s and 80s.

[PoolDoc]

Given your location in Atlanta, I would highly recommend having lightning protection installed. The VS pumps generally do NOT handle very well the voltage surges that often occur during thunderstorms. This problem is complicated because the cost of replacing the pumps electronics is typically 70% of the cost of a new pump!

[rcurlee]

What exactly is lightning protection for a VS pump? Is this somehting that I can purchase and install? or needs a professional? The replacement VS pump was installed professionally (Leslie's Pools) into an existing exterior circuit breaker outside of the house. This is also where the Polaris Pump is connected in the same circuit box. In the same proximity of where I have two separate AC condensor units that have their own exterior circuit breaker.
Lightinng protection was not mentioned last December during the pump replacement or when I replaced the Hayward single speed pump 6 years ago.

[PoolDoc]

Just to let you know, I've begun the process of digging into this issue. One of the apps engineers at Pentair is sending me some stuff, and I'm going to talk to apps engineers at Leviton and Square D.

But, the process is complicated by the fact that the Pentair (and probably Hayward) marketing departments will go ballistic if there's any official discussion of the problem

As a heads up, at first glance, it appears you should plan for ~$300 PLUS installion labor for reasonable protection, with "reasonable protection" being defined as "likely to protect you from a neighborhood strike, but not at all likely to protect from a strike within 100 feet of your house".

There are some other things you'll want to do. A high quality, well connected, full size copper ground wire from your house panel continuously to your pump service panel is essential. Conduit (non-wire) grounds are NOT OK - you MUST have copper wire from the panel to the pump. Otherwise, transient voltage surges (like strikes) can create an electronics-frying "ground loop" between your pump, your house panel, and the "bonding" wiring. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_%28electricity%29 )

[PoolDoc]

OK. I have some info.

The Leviton 51120-1 panel protector has a $25,000 warranty protecting electronics downstream of the device. It should be installed on MAIN panel, though it could be installed on a sub-panel, if your sub-panel is in a weather protected location. If you pump (or other house devices) are damaged by a surge, the 51120-1 will fail, and should indicate failure on the front of the panel. You have to remove the panel (maybe, just the interior guts) and send it to Leviton for inspection. If they validate a panel destroying surge, they will then cover some part of the your repair expenses. However, what will happen more often is that a surge will destroy the panel, but nothing else. However, it's better to replace a $200 panel than $800 of pump electronics.

I'm going to be talking to a Leviton engineer in the AM (rather than a applications specialist) to find out what might be needed to resolve the ground loop problem.

Here are the links:
Leviton 51120-1 panel protect product page (http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=51120-1&section=61413&minisite=10251)
Leviton 51120-1 Panel Protector, 120/240-Volt @ Amazon (~$180) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00081K55Q/poolbooks/)

a couple of links for later:
http://www.pentairpool.com/partslists/automation-compool-33.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-AI101-Transformer-Suppressor-Replacement/dp/B008GTWK4Q

I'll post the warranty, below.

Oops! In parsing the warranty, I discovered that pool pumps are probably excluded. I talked to Leviton again, and the support tech agrees that there are some inconsistencies in the literature. He's going to ask the product manager to call me, so hopefully I'll know more in a day or two.

[PoolDoc]

Leviton warranty from product specs:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=PdffZm34AfxLRmvtm0b8. Q&label=IBE&appName=IBE&minisite=10251

I've highlighted the weasel words I saw. My guess is that, if you do lose a pump after installing the 51120, you'll recover 1/2 - 2/3 of the pump repair cost. But, you'll have a good chance of losing nothing but the panel, when there's a damaging surge.


============== Leviton warranty text (highlighting is mine!) =================
PRODUCT COVERAGE
Limited Lifetime on materials and workmanship on 5100 series, 5300 series, S1000 series, S2000 series, 3500 series, 50240-MSA, 55240-ASA and 51120-1/-3R surge protective devices. Subject to the provision below, this warranty covers all defects in workmanship or materials in you Leviton SPD. If the SPD is damaged by a power surge and Leviton determines that such damage was caused by the performance failure of the Leviton surge suppressor, Leviton will, at its option, repair or replace
the unit.

CONNECTED EQUIPMENT COVERAGE
The Leviton “True Whole-House Surge Protection” program provides the following connected equipment coverage:

1. Meter Base (50240-MSA) and Surge Module (55240-ASA):
Maximum coverage per household up to $10,000 to repair or replace (whichever is less) residential equipment which sustain surge damage. Residential equipment includes: washer, dryer, stove, refrigerator, freezer, dishwasher, microwave oven, LCD or plasma TV, surround sound system, DVD, DVR and Indoor HVAC equipment. This portion of the warranty applies to electromechanical components and to any microprocessor components.

Coverage is applicable only when the Service Entrance SPD (1) was active and fully functional immediately prior to the claim event, and (2) sustained surge damage as a result of the claim event and (3) is installed within 100 feet of conductor of structure being protected. The Cat. No. 55240-ASA will provide $1,000 connected equipment for well-pumps.

2. Panel-Mount Service Entrance SPD (51120-1/-3R): Up to $25,000 to repair or replace (whichever is less) properly connected residential equipment damaged as the result of SPD failure (the SPD must also sustain surge damage).

3. Plug Strips: (a.) S2000 and 5300 Series: Up to 25,000, (b.) S1000 Series: Up to $10,000, and (c.) 5100 Series: Up to $5,000 to repair or replace (whichever is less) properly connected residential equipment damaged as the result of SPD failure (the SPD must also sustain surge damage).

4. Plug-In Adapters: Up to $5,000 to repair or replace (whichever is less) properly connected residential equipment damaged as the result of SPD failure (the SPD must also sustain surge damage). The above remedy is your exclusive remedy under this warranty, whether based on contract, tort, including negligence or otherwise. Claims must be made within 30 days of damage or loss. Leviton reserves the right to audit the damage site and/or cost of repairs and may require a proof of loss notarized by claimant.

WHAT IS A “POWER SURGE”?
“Power Surge” means an electrical transient or spike on the AC power or communication lines, including those caused by indirect lighting, against which surge suppressors of this type are generally designed to protect as recognized by industry standards.

WARRANTY CLAIM PROCEDURES
If any of the SPD products have defects or sustain damage covered by your “True Whole-House Surge Protection” warranty, call Leviton at 1-800-323-8920. To file a claim for power surge damage to connected equipment:

1. Meter Base (50240-MSA) & Surge Arrester (55240-ASA): If Red Light is ON – Call Utility for replacement of unit. Send the damaged Leviton SPD product(s), freight pre-paid, to Leviton Manufacturing for testing and confirmation of damage.

2. Surge Panels (51120-1, 51120-3R): If Red Light is ON – Call an electrician for replacement of unit. Send the damaged Leviton SPD product(s), freight pre-paid, to Leviton Manufacturing for testing and confirmation of damage.

3. Power Strips & Plug-In’s: Send the damaged Leviton SPD product(s), freight pre-paid, to Leviton for testing and confirmation of damage.

4. After Leviton confirms SPD damage, have damaged equipment repaired at an authorized service center.

5. Submit receipts along with your claim package to Leviton Manufacturing Co. Inc., 201 North Service Road, Melville, NY 11747, ATTN: CQA

6. Leviton reserves the right to repair or replace equipment at the prorated fair market value of the equipment damaged.


WHAT DOESN’T THIS WARRANTY COVER?

This warranty will not apply to any defects or damage to the Leviton SPD or any properly connected equipment arising because: (1) The Leviton SPD was tampered with, modified or altered in any way, or (2) the Leviton SPD or the connected equipment was not used under normal operating conditions or in accordance with any labels or instructions. This warranty does not cover any damage to properly connected equipment resulting from a cause other than a “power surge.” This warranty specifically does not cover damage associated with a sustained over-voltage; equipment installed outdoors, vandalism, theft, normal wear and tear, obsolescence, abuse or catastrophic events.

This specifically excludes sprinkler systems and hard-wired security alarm systems. Well-pumps are covered only when a 55240-ASA is installed directly at the equipment.

This warranty does not cover, garage door operators or outdoor equipment including outdoor HVAC units and window-mounted air conditioners.

Leviton disclaims liability for any installation labor, incidental, indirect, special or consequential damages, including, without limitation, lost business profits, loss of data and all freight, mileage, travel time, and insurance charges associated with warranty coverage claims arising out of the sale or use of the Leviton SPD or out of the performance (or failure or delay) of Leviton’s warranty.

Valid in U.S.A. and Canada.

[PoolDoc]

Lightinng protection was not mentioned last December during the pump replacement or when I replaced the Hayward single speed pump 6 years ago.

As I mentioned, Pentair and Hayward don't want to talk about this issue, because it highlights a worrisome weakness in their products -- and these are high profit products.

Surge protection limits voltage surges that can result from nearby lighting, from power company switching, and so on. It's not really lightning protection: if lightning hits within 100' of your house, surge protection probably won't stop the damage.

Plain old-style mechanical pumps don't seem to be damaged by surges, or even nearby strikes. Of course direct strikes destroy all electrical equipment. By contrast, VS pumps have electronic components that are apparently quite sensitive to voltage surges.

I won't have more specific recommendations till I finish talking to Leviton, and possibly some others.

[Watermom]

By the way, thanks for the subscription!

[nefretrameses]

Curlee,
Mark (mas985) posted a paper in another thread about a study of pump run times in Florida pools. Very enlightening. I too was advised to run my pump as long as the sun was on the pool. I have been running my pump for 2 1/2 hours for months and can't see any difference in water clarity. Of course it was during winter. I just got in the pool for the first time last week (briefly - I gotta get that solar project to the top of the list). Anyway as temperature and use go up, we'll see if I need to run longer. Seems to me, the most cost savings are achieved when the pump is OFF.

Thread 22255 (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/22255) "How long does the pump really need to run"

[mas985]

I have to give credit to Ben (PoolDoc) for originally finding the paper.