Reviews of Bioguard swimming pool chemicals?

[Bardo213]

Hi all. I purchased a home with a 16x32 in ground pool last year. Ended up needing a new liner after this winter which should be completed this coming weekend. Every pool store around me sells and recommends Bioguard products. Any input or feedback on this? I know from looking around that chlorine is chlorine, however I'd like something that, like Bioguard, claims to have minimal up keep on my end. Thanks

[PoolDoc]

I know from looking around that chlorine is chlorine, however I'd like something that, like Bioguard, claims to have minimal up keep on my end.

If you just want a product that claims to have minimal upkeep, there are many choices, but Bioguard would certainly be at the top of anyone's list for having claimed, for years, to be the best and the easiest.

Of course, if you want something that actual DOES provide minimal upkeep, rather than simply CLAIMS to do so, you'll have to look a bit further.


Here's are some typical examples, which may help you decide:

12 lbs BioGuard Balance Pak 100 (www.poolgeek.com/products/bioguard-balance-pak-100-12-lb) @ PoolGeek for $13 (+ $10 S&H)
Bioguard carefully labels BP-100 as containing "100% sodium hydrogen carbonate".

6 lbs BioGuard Balance Pak 200 (http://www.poolgeek.com/products/bioguard-balance-pak-200-6-lb) @ PoolGeek for $12 (+ $10 S&H)
Bioguard identifies the product as "sodium carbonate"

12 lbs BioGuard Balance Pak 300 (http://www.poolgeek.com/products/bioguard-balance-pak-300-12-lb) @ PoolGeek for $22 (+ $10 S&H)
I think Bioguard identifies the product as "calcium chloride"


13.5 lbs Arm & Hammer Baking Soda (www.samsclub.com/prod1180321.ip) @ PoolGeek for $6.44 (+ $0.60 sales tax)
A & H identifies the contends as "sodium bicarbonate".

3.4 lbs Arm & Hammer Washing Soda (www.walmart.com/ip/19407690) @ Walmart for $3.24 (+ $0.30 sales tax)
A & H identifies the contends as "sodium carbonate".

50 lbs store brand calcium chloride (http://www.lowes.com/pd_151998-10611-50B-HEAT_0__?productId=3540820) @ Lowes for $18 (+ $1.67 sales tax)
But, unless you have a concrete pool . . . you don't NEED calcium chloride.


Now, I've heard BioGuard dealers *fiercely* argue that sodium hydrogen carbonate was not the same thing as sodium bicarbonate. But, I'll quote Wikipedia's article on sodium bicarb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate):

Sodium bicarbonate or sodium hydrogen carbonate is the chemical compound with the formula NaHCO3

Put simply, BioGuard line is the 'premium' chemical line for BioLab pool chemicals. The BioGuard chemicals are packaged more nicely, with the most sophisticated graphics and layout of any current brand. The BioGuard 'Alex' is . . . well, I'll let BioGuard tell you, with this quote from their 'benefits of being a BG dealer page' (http://www.bioguard.com/The_BioGuard_Difference/Becoming_a_BioGuard_Dealer/Products):

One of the best ways to sell BioGuard products is through our exclusive, cutting-edge water-testing tools ALEX® and Accu-Scan®. ALEX is revolutionary software that analyzes test results, figures proper treatment and yields product suggestions and instructions. Accu-Scan is the actual unit that reads the test strip using color reflectance. Nobody else in the industry offers faster or more impressive and precise water testing system.

ALEX has been revolutionary at SELLING BioGuard products since the 1980's. It is indeed both very fast and very precise, with results to the nearest 10 ppb (0.01 ppm). It offers suggestions and instructions that are amazingly effective . . . at selling products that pool owners do not need! And though it's precise (many decimals) it's often horrendously inaccurate. But all that precision (decimals) creates the "impression" of an authoritative test results that is effective at SELLING more chemicals.

And, the inaccuracy helps even more, since if ALEX doesn't sell you something on the first pass, just let them test your water again, and you'll get ALL NEW RESULTS that will recommend more, and different chemicals!

And if that doesn't work, the ALEX program will sell you chemicals to CREATE problems, where none existed before. The most common case, are print-outs telling pool owners to add large quantities of BOTH baking soda and calcium chloride. Doing so will turn your pool into a milk-looking mess almost instantly! We've had new forum users desperate to understand what was wrong with their pool, when the only problem was that they'd followed the ALEX printout to the letter! (And then the dealer sold them "clarifier" to help them clean up the mess ALEX had created!)

A number of years ago, 3 members here got together and all went to their regular dealer together, all carrying their water sample bottles filled with pool water. All three got different results, and a different prescription from ALEX . . . even though they'd all three filled their samples from a single pool!

Get a K2006 . . . and test it yourself => http://pool9.net/tk/

[Bardo213]

Thanks for the responses. I had the liner done today, and the pool company ended up filling the pool up roughly half way since they said they needed to in order to make sure the liner laid correctly (I guess). The pool is 23,000 gallons, and I had planned on using the SS recipe to fill. Now that there is already water in there, how should I proceed? I have bleach and stabilizer that I purchased from Sams. I will pick up the up borax tonight. Should I test the water first in order to give you more info? I do have the K 2006 kit. Thanks in advance.

[PoolDoc]

It's a good idea to test your fill water, so you know what you're working with. Don't test CYA -- there's none in well or city water, and there are only a very limited number of CYA tests in the K2006.

You can follow the SS recipe for up to 2 months on a large pool. After that, you'll need to switch to the standard test & adjust approach.

[chem geek]

And if that doesn't work, the ALEX program will sell you chemicals to CREATE problems, where none existed before. The most common case, are print-outs telling pool owners to add large quantities of BOTH baking soda and calcium chloride. Doing so will turn your pool into a milk-looking mess almost instantly! We've had new forum users desperate to understand what was wrong with their pool, when the only problem was that they'd followed the ALEX printout to the letter! (And then the dealer sold them "clarifier" to help them clean up the mess ALEX had created!)

This post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/6753-Cloudy-water-in-freshly-re-filled-pool) is an example of this where adding Balance Pak 100 and Balance Pak 200 together increased pH and TA to make the pool cloudy. Then Smart Shock was added which had copper in it that turned the cloud green.

[CarlD]

Balance Pak 100 = Sodium Bicarbonate==>Baking soda
Balance Pak 200 = Sodium Carbonante ==>Washing soda
Balance Pak 300 = Calcium Carbonate (basically, what's in Tums.)

[chem geek]

Balance Pak 300 = Calcium Carbonate (basically, what's in Tums.)
Actually, according to this MSDS (http://www.thepoolteamstore.com/subpages/pdfs/BioGuard%20Balance%20Pak%20300.pdf), Balance Pak 300 is calcium chloride, not calcium carbonate (which does not dissolve very quickly except in acid). It's the same as Peladow (90% calcium chloride) and similar to Dowflake (68% calcium chloride).

[CarlD]

Actually, according to this MSDS (http://www.thepoolteamstore.com/subpages/pdfs/BioGuard%20Balance%20Pak%20300.pdf), Balance Pak 300 is calcium chloride, not calcium carbonate (which does not dissolve very quickly except in acid). It's the same as Peladow (90% calcium chloride) and similar to Dowflake (68% calcium chloride).

Thanks for the correction, Richard.

Of course, the point is they are selling very ordinary chemicals at 3x or 4x what you can buy them at when you go to the supermarket or CostCo. Even the fanciest market in my town sells both borax and washing soda for about $1/lb.

[Bardo213]

My patio was just finished around the pool yesterday, and the pool company came back to get rid of any wrinkles in the liner. Apparently they shocked and put algecide in the pool as well. I took my readings today and this is what I have:

pH around 7 so I added 4 doses of borax according to the SS recipe
FC of 6.4
CC of 0 (?)
TA 50
CH 80 (but could be lower since I'm color blind and this one was hard for me to tell, no one was around at the time to ask)
CYA was less than 30

I have the Pool Brand dichlor from Sams that I have been adding nightly since the pool was completely filled for about 3 or 4 days now. I have only been adding one bag, should I increase it to two? Also, the guys who did the patio knocked a lot of dirt and some rocks into the pool. I tried vacuuming most of it out, but need to dive in and get some of the pebbles out as the vacuum didn't have enough suction.

Do I hold off on adding bleach for now until the CYA is up?

Any other advice is appreciated. Thanks

[Watermom]

Yes, keep using dichlor until your CYA level is around 50ppm or so and then switch to bleach.

Your CH is fine and since it is a liner pool, this is not a test that you need to worry about. In a vinyl pool, CH is only a problem if it is high.

The TA is ok at 50 but it may help your pH to be more stable if you increase it a little with some baking soda. Aim for 80-100ppm. Add a couple of pounds, and then wait several hours before you retest and add more if needed.

[PoolDoc]

And . . . you do NOT need 2 bags of dichlor. With FC=6 and CYA<30, you are fine.

Chlorine levels need to be 10% or more of the CYA level -- you are at 20% or more.

[Bardo213]

Thanks for the advice. I will update in about a week to see if my CYA levels are higher at that point. I appreciate the help

[Bardo213]

I tested my water this morning and have the following:

pH: 7.2 (I added a small amount of borax)
FC: 5
CC: 0
TA: 80
CYA: 60 (possibly a little lower)

It looks like I should hold off on the stabilizer now, and start using the bleach. I have used the stabilizer for over a week now I believe, and was hoping you could help me set up some type of regular schedule for me going forward. How often should I check TA going forward? Weekly? Same with CYA? Also just wanted you to know that the water looks amazing so far and no complaints. Thank you

[Watermom]

First of all, please make a signature. In it, please tell us type of pool, volume, size of pump, type and size of filter and also add the fact that you have a K2006 kit. That will keep us from scrolling through the entire thread looking for info when we make replies. You can click on the link in my signature below to make your signature.

As far as a routine -----

Every evening, test your pool. Add enough bleach to take your chlorine back up to the maximum level based on your CYA. You want to make sure that your chlorine never drops below the minimum before the next evening. More about the CYA/Chlorine connection can be found here:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/ You may find that you can add bleach every other day instead of every day and still not drop below the minimum. You'll get more familiar with your pool's behavior as you test more.

In a 23K gallon pool, each of the 121-oz jugs of 8.25% bleach will add about 3.5ppm of chlorine. You can use that as a reference to help you figure out doses of bleach you need to add when you test. (Since your CYA is around 60, I would only use bleach from now on for your source of chlorine. You really don't want the CYA any higher.)

Also, test pH daily. If it drops below 7.2, add a little borax. TA can be tested every week or two, unless you start to see your pH bouncing around. CYA doesn't need to be tested very often if you aren't using dichlor or trichlor (which you should not use). Maybe test it monthly.

Hope this helps.