Fanta Sea Pool

[J_Palmer_Cass]

First post, so this is just a test.

I own a Fanta Sea Pool, and it appears that there are few who post here own the same pool.

[CarlD]

Hi! I, too, am a FantaSea pool owner, now in my 12th season. I have what was called an "Add-A-Deck" pool, custom-sized at 16'x40' with a 5 1/2' hopper deep end. It is built into my deck and we love it! The "Add-A-Deck" is simply the structure of the pool, with the 2' foot solar panels, no other deck, railing, stairs, etc.

It is, however, a high-maintenance pool, as I have to replace a solar panel or two nearly every year. I made the solar system far more efficient several years ago by building a manifold with two valves, splitting the solar deck into 2 halves (North-West and South-East), and cutting new returns at the far end of the pool. The old warm-water return, near the main return, was converted to an automatic over-flow drain. This way, I can turn on the panels in the sun, and turn off the panels out of it, and when both sets are on, with each having the same flow rate as the whole together, it heats the pool faster.

This year will be the last of the liner. I have the "Space-Age" walls and they haven't held up as well as I had hoped, developing corrosion that threatens to penetrate the liner. So when I close the pool this fall, I'm going to drain it, pull out the liner and remove the "Space-Age" walls. I plan on then scraping lots of rust of and treating the metal with anti-rust spray, putting in a new set of plywood waterwalls (the standard, to reduce cost and they don't bow as much), and then, in the spring, leveling the sand and installing the new liner, complete with new returns, and new gaskets for the lights and skimmer. I also need to replace at least 3 of the liner copings, damaged by the weird, crazy winter we had. Hopefully, the pool will be good for at least another dozen or so years!

Unfortunately, while Leisure Living, aka Island Pools, isn't selling the Fanta Sea pools any more, they are still selling new Kayak pools, which are similar but do not have the solar deck. I gather they had a fire about 5 years ago that destroyed many of their one-off templates they used for the Fanta Seas and haven't recreated them (not sure why). But they still are able to supply most of the parts for the pools.

So I am pretty up on Fanta Sea pools and their issues.

[PoolDoc]

Welcome.

. . . membership updated.

[J_Palmer_Cass]

Hi Carl.

Full FantaSea build about 1984. 16' X 32' X 46" deep flat bottom. Solar panel decking around perimeter of the pool. FantaSea 16' X 12' add on deck. First rebuild about 1998. Second rebuild (major) in 2013.

When I have some more time, we can discuss some details on my rebuilds. You may find my experience useful since your first rebuild is coming up soon.

This site seems a bit hard to use in that I can not edit my postings nor can I apply attachments. Kind of hard to make detailed postings with no errors. I also like to have my pictures saved as attachments rather than use an external web site. I clear out my external photo hosting pictures every few years, so when I do that my pictures will no longer be shown on this site.

[Watermom]

You should be able to edit your post. There is a button in the lower right corner.

[J_Palmer_Cass]

You should be able to edit your post. There is a button in the lower right corner.


I can not edit my posting at this point in time. I am not sure if that edit permission is granted to me.

Way down the bottom this is what I see under permissions:

Posting Permissions
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

[PoolDoc]

@Watermom: moderated (ie, anonymous) users can't edit their posts.

Spammers have been able to enter as moderated users, get a post approved, and then edit that post to contain their spam. The forum does not have any sort of alert on edits, so I can't detect that until a user sees it and contacts me.

@J_Palmer,etc: Regarding photos, we archive them for precisely that reason. The vBulletin attachment system has a history of 'eating' photos at each major upgrade; I've lost all photos 2x now. Over the winter, we mostly move user photos into the PoolForum Picasa account.

[J_Palmer_Cass]

FantaSea upper rail failure.



http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_3957-Medium.jpg



http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_3957-Medium_Trimmed.jpg

[CarlD]

That kind of rail failure is my fear. The long rail is about 900 lbs and required a bobcat to install it. That is why I want to arrest rust damage now.
Your original wood walls lasted 14 years. My "Space Age" wall have been failing for years and now, at year 12, are about to puncture the liner. It is a beaded liner, not an overlap.

If I go ahead with the vinyl plywood walls, I would only screw them in, but I will consider PT 3/4" A-C ply. What did you use between the plywood and the liner?

[J_Palmer_Cass]

That kind of rail failure is my fear. The long rail is about 900 lbs and required a bobcat to install it. That is why I want to arrest rust damage now.



To gain access to the metal rail system, you have to remove the solar panels, the outer 2" x 4" panel supports, as well as the 1" X 6" outside vertical that your rails screw into. There is no way to get at the rails if you do not do that. I have pictures if you need to see what I am talking about.




Your original wood walls lasted 14 years. My "Space Age" wall have been failing for years and now, at year 12, are about to puncture the liner. It is a beaded liner, not an overlap.

If I go ahead with the vinyl plywood walls, I would only screw them in, but I will consider PT 3/4" A-C ply. What did you use between the plywood and the liner?


I guess we are into semantics here. The factory 4' X 8" plywood panels start to fail near the 10 year mark. It was not realistic to replace them until the liner was shot. The liner was replaced after 14 years. Just as a note, they do not use marine grade plywood. Just exterior grade with a vinyl coating on both sides. I recommend that you stay clear of that product.

I bought a full new coping kit for this 2013 rebuild, and purchased the beaded liner. Leisure Living gave me a discount on the package.


Some details here. Screw in 15 year old pressure treated (PT) plywood sidewalls at pool year 30 (2013). Plywood is still in great shape after 15 years of use. Top 2" X 6" PT are all new due to warping and some rot.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_4286_Medium.jpg



Apply duct tape (or similar) over seams and all screws, spray on swimming pool adhesive, and then apply pool wall foam. The wall foam can be purchased at any pool supply store including Leisure Living.


http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_4292_Medium.jpg



Note: One of my postings is missing.

[CarlD]

By far the worst rust I have on the rails is on the diagonal rounds. The rest is more surface rust. I certainly want to avoid removing the outside 1x6 as that requires removing my custom fencing completely (Ben has a picture of my pool here somewhere). The 4x4's seem in good shape, and, since it is an "Add-a-Deck" they don't have the extended cantilever to support more than the 2' wide deck. Where we extended the deck a few years ago (on the East end) it is self-supporting, not relying on the FantaSea structure.

Looking at the price of A-C marine-grade PT, I have to say it's far, FAR cheaper than Leisure Living's wood walls--about 1/4 the price. Using wall foam over the ply means that you CAN use duct tape (not recommended when the liner is directly against the water wall. So I'm seriously considering taking your advice on that step. Even at $40/sheet, 14 sheets of marine ply are STILL, at $560 far less than the $$1800 + shipping quoted. That's a great idea!

[J_Palmer_Cass]

By far the worst rust I have on the rails is on the diagonal rounds. The rest is more surface rust. I certainly want to avoid removing the outside 1x6 as that requires removing my custom fencing completely (Ben has a picture of my pool here somewhere). The 4x4's seem in good shape, and, since it is an "Add-a-Deck" they don't have the extended cantilever to support more than the 2' wide deck. Where we extended the deck a few years ago (on the East end) it is self-supporting, not relying on the FantaSea structure.




I know what you are saying about taking the pool apart to get at things. Don't worry about those diagonal rounds. If you do nothing at all they will last 100 years. Worry about the long term condition of the 4 angles on each rail. The top angles furthest away (AKA outside top) from the waterwall is the key item to watch (20 20 hindsight).

At the year 14 rebuild (1998), we replaced the FantaSea plywood waterwalls with the PT 3/4" plywood. We also cleaned and repainted the bottom rail. That is a must do item. We also have 4" X 4" posts every 2 feet on the side walls that we paid extra for at the time at the original installation.

As I recall, a few of the upper 2" X 6" PT solar panel / coping supports needed to be changed at that time on as needed basis. If the 2" X 6" supports are loose, then the top of the 4" X 4" posts may be rotted a bit. If the 2" X 6" PT supports are loose, warped or a bit rotted, the coping has mounting problems. Judgement call on what you need to do there. Until you take the coping and old liner off, you don't know what is needed.

While the waterwalls are removed, I would put a coat of paint on the waterwall side of the top rail angles. One time shot to paint that metal.

The above is plenty of work for you to complete in a timely manner. You can paint the top rail angles on a long term schedule as needed. Note high chlorine areas degrade first. Areas like the ladder, and the side where people tend to hang around.


Ladder area where failure occurred at about year 30.


http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_4029_Medium.jpg



Closeup of same area (AKA ladder = high chlorine wet rail area). Note the long term top upper outside angle deterioration to paper thin thickness and ultimate failure. Not bad for 30 years with no maintenance of the paint. Like you said, it is too much work to get to to do proper rail maintenance.



http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/Red_Foreman/IMG_4029_Trimmed_Medium.jpg

[CarlD]

I appreciate all the insights. I have long been the sole FantaSea guy here. Again, I've seen the most destructive rust on the diagonals, not the angles. But I will look closer. For us, the wedding cake steps get far more use than the ladder. The perpetual leaks from the panels and the hose connections, an annual hunt, seem to do the most damage. Due to winter ice damage I had to reset every coping in late April and early May and there was no rot under them.

[J_Palmer_Cass]

Your pool is still a young pool, so I would expect there to be minimal rust and wood deterioration at this point in time. Your rebuild at 12 years of pool age should be easy (on a relative basis). Your next rebuild (at 25 to 30 years) will be the big one.

I thought the new style waterwall that you used was supposed to be an improvement over the FantaSea plywood waterwalls. I guess not. Not sure what the defect is related to the corrosion that you mentioned.

Make sure you take pictures of your rebuild as you go along and post them on this site. Your memory will fade over time on what you did, so a photo record is nice to have.


Remember that my pool is 30 years old, so age does take it's toll on the entire pool. I simply made a decision to replace the old wood (2" X 6", 2" X 4" and 1" X 6") because I did not want to touch the pool for the next 15 years.

The outer 1" X 6" wood was at the end of life. The 2" X 4" solar panel support located above the 1" X 6" trim was changed because of time management and fit and finish, and was not very expensive to change.

The 2" X 6" wood was in 8' sections, and was nailed into the 4" X 4" wall studs. Rusted nails, warping, nail rust damage to wood, water damage and split ends. We flipped them over at the year 14 rebuild and installed them with screws. After 30 years, there was no way to make a solid connection at the ends. I replaced them with a mix of 12' lengths and 8' lengths.

The 4" X 4" walls studs were inspected and replaced on an as needed basis (about 20%). Ant colony hidden in one of the studs located in the FantaSea poly wall supports.

Anyhow, the 30 year old FantaSea pool looks better after the rebuild than the pool looked when it was new.

When I get a chance I may post a few more photos of the FantaSea rebuild process. There is very little reference information about FantaSea repairs out there on the WWW.

[CarlD]

All good suggestions. Galvanized screws do not do well, so everything in the rebuild will either be stainless or ceramic. No nails, not even ringed stainless. Also, my rails are cedar so galvanized is a no-no...it doesn't do well with cedar.

The aluminum and plastic walls have been a disappointment. Aluminum can easily "rust" if it is not properly anodized, or the anodization is breached, and it has, and, unfortunately on the liner side, not the visible side. Also, despite reinforcement every two feet, they bow out, badly.

I could easily get another season, as the liner's patches are sound and there are no leaks there. But I will be pushing my luck...and I will be another year older, too!