Help...(don't laugh) 12'x30" Intex Pool....first timer!

[kittyprrrs]

Ok, first off I want to say HELLO to you all. I am glad I came across this site while doing research for the pool I bought my 9 month old daughter! I have signed her up for swimming lessons (as I am honestly, the worlds worst swimmer) and I wanted to make sure she practices what she learns. So far, she loves the water and her pool. Now here comes my dilemma.

My local pool supply store, is very....unfriendly to newbies stupid questions. Perhaps, they want me to have them come over and clean my little 12' pool? But, do they really want to? The gas...the size of the pool...the 20 minutes??? So, here are my questions.

I want to keep the water nice and clean. My neighbor had an Intex until a friends Pit Bull got a hold of it (it really was quite funny...honest). So, they gave me the test kit (for alk, cl, ph...etc.). So far, I'm ok on the chlorine and ph but, I wanted to know...do I add chlorine everyday?

In the city I live in, the water is so hard that when I get out of the pool with my daughter, about 20 minutes later, my skin looks "ashy". Is there any way to prevent this? I can only imagine what it is doing to my hair and the lining of the pool. Do they make a "multi-formula-capsule-time release-for the pod" thing that you put in the skimmer?

Is there a way to slow down the deterioration/evaporation of chlorine?

I bought a skimmer for the pool and am waiting for a part that did not come with my kit and I also bought an upgraded pump for the pool in hopes that this will aid in the cleanliness of the pool. Will these two items help or am I wasting my money? I know, my questions are all over the place but, I am really confused about all the "measurements" seeing as they only refer to pools over 10,000 gallons of water! OY!

My pool only hold 1353 gallons of water. The pump I have only pumps 500 gal/hr. I've upgraded to the 1000 gal/hr pump and am waiting for it.

Please advise....

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

First off, let me say that your questions are not stupid--I'm just glad you didn't let the pool store sell you a bunch of crap that you don't need. Also, let me suggest that you read everything you can on this site and also go to the sister site, Poolsolutions.com, and read through everything there. And if you have questions, please ask!

Once you get your chemicals balanced, it should help with the "ashy" feeling you get after swimming--I'd suspect that your pH is off, or you may have combined chlorine. If you would please run a set of tests with your drop-based kit (not strips!), and post numbers for Cl, pH, Alk, and CYA, we can better help you. Also, what form of chlorine are you using? Whether or not you'll have to add chlorine daily depends on your CYA level and some other variables.

The CYA is the stabilizer for the chlorine. The higher it is, the less chlorine you'll lose in a day to the sun, but the down side is that you also have to keep the minimum chlorine levels higher to compensate. It's kind of a trade-off, and different people have different opinions. Most here like to keep their stabilizer in the 20-40 range, and most have to add bleach (small amounts) daily. Others (me included) keep ours higher (mine's in the 80 range at this time) and only have to add bleach a couple of times a week, although in larger amounts. It all depends on how good you are about staying on top of your water, how much sun your pool gets, bather load, etc.
And the chemical levels are good for any type of pool, not just the larger ones.


While the pump/filtering sizing isn't my forte, I think that you'd be better off spending the extra money on an upgraded filter, rather than pump. I'm sure others will chime in here with better info on that subject, but I do know that AG pool filters are notorious about being undersized, which takes longer and doesn't do as efficient a job at filtering as the correctly sized ones.

Hope this helps....

Janet

[CarlD]

Laugh? Me? I'm a BIG advocate of donuts as starter pools! You learn, you mess up, you empty and refill, and learn some more. We used a 15'x3' Intex for 3 years till we built the big pool.

Though I got to admit the pit bull tearing a pool up is pretty funny--as long as it's not MY pool...I'll bet HE was surprised to get a face-full of water.

The only difference with a small pool is that you use smaller amounts of chemicals to get the same results. Some things are different--you find vacuuming is tough. I suggest you invest it two extravagances:
1) a good test kit like PoolSolutions PS-234, or Taylor's 2006, or Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit that uses FAS-DPD chlorine testing. Figure less than $100 for this, maybe as low as $70. But you have to buy them on-line.
2) A PoolBuster as your vacuum. Yeah, it's pricey, but all the other solutions for vacuuming your Intex are either so/so (like the garden hose powered ones) or really, really tough to set up--like to get your filter to power the vacuum. You have to be VERY inventive for the latter. The P/B was an impulse buy for me that I got darn lucky on. (No, I'm not a dealer--I'm a project manager for a C.R.O.--nothing to do with pools).

What's nice about these two things is if you decide to get a bigger pool, they will STILL be two of your most useful tools. I GOT the PS-232 (2 generations older than the PS-234) for the Intex, but the P/B wasn't on the market then. I got it in the 2nd year of my big pool.

[kittyprrrs]

Janet...

No no..it does help. Thank you!

As for the numbers:

Alk=20x10=200 (when the green turned red)
CL=1/2 (in between)
PH=7.5/7.8
Hardness=160
CYA=The black dot never "went away" or disappeared.....did this twice

As for the "stuff" that my neighbor gave me along with the kit was:

1. HTH-Chlorinating Granules
2. HTH-Shock 'n Swim
3. HTH-Stabilizer Conditioner

As for my "filter" they are saying the only one compatible is type "A"...is there another brand I can use or are there better filters out there?

I've cleaned it once already...quite gross but...I managed to get my high pressured hose to rinse out all the yellow looking material in there...

Thanks in advance!

[kittyprrrs]

CarlD, Thank you!

Actually, do I need a vaccum? I cover my pool up at around 3-ish every day and I scoop constantly....I mean....I'm sure I can get my McGyver (sp) of a husband to invent a vaccum....i'm sure he'll let me use the shop vac! ahahhahahaa!

I have the HTH pool and spa test kit already...is that not a good brand? (like I said...so totally new to pools...the last one we had was a DoughBoy and that was when I was like 9 years old...and all I cared about was swimming...daddy took care of the pool...now my husband is the daddy and I am the mommy...omg!) Please advise....

As for the pit bull....it was by far the funniest thing I have ever seen....he just grabbed a hold of the ring...bit and it started deflating...but because it was draining, he was not letting go....getting even more mad....and hanging on...while the water just poured over him....all the while...getting more mad...and really got angry and started SHAKING the pool which got him even MORE drenched...this went on until the pool was empty...about 6 o'clock...he didn't let go...not once! It was definitely a 4 thumbs up and a decent bag of popcorn worth!

[aylad]

Okay...alk at 200 is high, but in a vinyl pool it won't be a big deal unless you're using cal-hypo to chlorinate with and your calcium levels get too high.(that's what the cleaning granules are). When the calcium gets too high, you'll start seeing your water cloud when you add the chlorine. I would expect that to happen when your Calcium gets to 400 or so, but the number isn't the same from pool to pool. You can still use it for awhile, but at some point you're going to have to switch to bleach.

I don't understand what you mean by Cl at 1/2--do you mean .5 ppm? If so, you need to get some in the pool. Since your CYA black dot never went away, it means you have less than 20 ppm, and possibly none, in your pool (none is probably the case unless you've added some since you filled the pool). In that case, you need to add chlorine to approx. 3 ppm to keep your water clean--and don't let it get below 1. While you're at it, go ahead and add the label dose of CYA (the stabilizer) to get to 20 ppm. Don't broadcast it in the pool, though--either put it in the skimmer and don't backwash and retest for at least a week, or put it in a tube sock and put it in the skimmer or tied in front of a return. It still can take up to a week to completely dissolve, so don't add more for at least a week so you won't overshoot. Understand that when your CYA level increases, so must your Cl--see the "best guess" table in the chlorine forum.

I'll leave the filter question to somebody that knows more than me (CarlD!).

Janet

[CarlD]

The filters on these things don't have a skimmer--they use a little cartridge that you can wash or replace for about $10.

"McGyver" can certainly rig up a vacuum--I did it by forcing a double-female 3/4" PVC fitting halfway in one end of 18' or 1.25" hose. The other end fit in the Intex drain fitting (to the pump--it's called a drain) perfectly. It sucked up the fine stuff. But BOY, a PoolBuster is easier and works better!

Lots of people use wet/dry shop vacs in little pools. Work fast! You can start a syphon too, and vacuum with that (like in a fish tank). No energy used but you have to replace water.

If the kit is the HtH 5-way test kit it may be OK. If it's old, no matter what it is, the chems must be replaced. But the better kits that I listed give you a much more accurate, precise and extensive look at your water to catch issues before they become problems. You only need to run ALL the tests once a week, but chlorine and pH should be tested every day.

It's simply worth it to have a good test kit and use it. It will pay for itself many times over. All three kits use Taylor chemicals and they are easily replaceable if and when you run out or they get old.

For adding CYA, you can either use a floater with a puck in it (that will add chlorine too) or use that GREAT trick of an empty floater, a stocking and hanging the CYA in it!

[kittyprrrs]

Ok. Getting the "jist" of all this finally! Thank you all, so much, for clearing this up for me.

First off, I have to say, I got treated like an utter moron at Leslie's Pool Supply yesterday. I went in to purchase 2 filters (I have OCD and I have to buy things in pairs....yeah, I feel for hubby!) and started asking about (because my g/f's dad said they were quite knowledgable and very 'friendly') chlorine tablets (I assume this is the puck thing that CarlD was suggesting to) with a 'floater'. They looked at me like "what?". SO, I pointed out what I was talking about and they were trying to sell me a 10 gallon bucket of "pucks!". OMG! What? Where do you suggest I keep a 10 gallon of 'pucks'?

Secondly, they asked me "what size is your pool?" I said to them that "I got her (as I had my daughter with me) the 12'x30" Intex round pool. It hold 1353 gallons of water and I believe the pump I have pumps 500 gal/hr, which I have just purchased the upgraded 12R that supposedly pumps 1000 gal/hr. Also, I purchased an Intex skimmer that I am waiting on a part to hook up to the new pump and help keep my pool clean". If he could have 'rolled' his eyes, he would have! It was that look that I get quite often at pool supply stores the look of "Oh god....get a REAL pool". He showed me the filters and 'walked' away and started helping another customer! I stood there looking at the other customer and thinking "Hello...I'm holding my daughter and I was here first...isn't this a 'first come first serve' basis?". So, I put the extension pole that I was considering purchasing back, the 'floater', the chemicals to test my water, the new floatie I was about to buy for Carisa, one filter (yeah I fought myself with this), a hose that I was going to buy for my McGyver along with the attachment to roll around the bottom...everything went back. So, instead of almost purchasing quite a bit and spending even more "bit", I spent 6.99 + tax. Said thanks and walked out.

Seriously, don't these people KNOW that if I had the SPACE I would have PUT an IG pool already? Why do they feel they must treat you like you are an idiot to buy an AG pool? Customer service just ISN'T what it used to be! Grrr....

Ok...ranting done! So, now...
1. CarlD "use that GREAT trick of an empty floater, a stocking and hanging the CYA in it!"-Cya...Stabilizer is what it is called at the store right? And you really do mean a "stocking" right? Like...nylon...stocking? Cause I got plenty of those...real stocking...from DK but...it will work right? Hmmm...I'll hang it with the garters! hahahahahha! Kidding...Seriously though, which one works better? Nylon/Tube sock?

2. Aylad/Janet "cal-hypo"-is this a brand?

3. Aylad/Janet "You can still use it for awhile, but at some point you're going to have to switch to bleach."-Ok when you say "bleach" you do mean either granules of chlorine or the 'puck + floater' device correct?

4. Aylad/Janet "....what you mean by Cl at 1/2--do you mean .5 ppm"- Well, on my 'test tube' it says CL/BR and the next cell says PH. The CL (I assume that is Chlorine?) was the color of 1 and 2. Not quite 1, not quite 2. So, if you looked at the BR it would have been between 2 & 4. Makes sense? I don't even know what I am looking at in these vials...that is how clueless I am!

5.Aylad/Janet "While you're at it, go ahead and add the label dose of CYA (the stabilizer) to get to 20 ppm. Don't broadcast it in the pool, though--either put it in the skimmer and don't backwash and retest for at least a week, or put it in a tube sock and put it in the skimmer or tied in front of a return."- So, now that my number went from .5 to 1/2, does that change how much (I would think so...but need clarification) 'stabilizer/CYA' I add to the pool? "Backwash"-uhm...I don't understand this term in pool terms...soda term and cup terms yeah....please define? sorry...really don't know much about pools! When you say "tube sock" you really do mean a 'tube sock' right? Cause I have a dozen right now I can tear through...thanks to the hubby and they are even new...! I know..I'm goofy!

As for the pool, I woke up this morning and found that my husband (bless him) has decided that the pool was 'lopsided' and he didn't like the placement of the air valve for the ring nor the filter (although he does not maintain the pool, I get to...so a learning I will go!) placement. The mad man pumped all the water out! *shaking head*....I tell you...when you don't want them to help, they help....when you want them to help, they don't. Please....why are men like this? Or...does this question belong in a another forum? ahahahaha!

Thank you all so very much for the help I've received so far. I am learning quite a bit and I truly appreciate it!

Awaiting more advice and knowledge....

[CarlD]

I'm at work so i don't have the time to answer as I want to. Your questions are good questions, not dumb ones, and I appologize for short changing you.

Search the forum for the new way to add CYA. It's hilarious and WILL work extremely well (yes, lady's hose).

Bleach means bleach. Liquid Chorine in a jug, but sold in your supermarket as bleach. Plain, generic, unscented laundry bleach. Ultra is OK. Plain / Regular is 5.25% chlorine, Ultra is 6% Chlorine. Pool store "Liquid Chlorine" is usually 6% in gallons jugs so it's EXACTLY the same as ultra bleach. Sometimes it's 10% or 12.5% which is, of course, twice as strong, but very unstable an breaks down rapidly if you don't use up.

Granules (powder) is either di-chlor powder or cal-hypo powder. Sometimes tri-chlor powder. These are types, not brands. Go to the top of the pool testing forum and the chlorine forum and read the stickied threads there--they may help.

Wish I had time for more....

Carl

[kittyprrrs]

Carl D...

Many thanks...no need to apologize..I am grateful for any input and more information!

Have a great day at work....

[CarlD]

Not much chance of THAT :mad: but thanks!;)

Here's the thread you want: No joke! (but it's funny!)

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=3254

[kittyprrrs]

omg! i saw that...i finally puched in "Intex" and laughed my butt off! I don't know but it looked a bit obscene and yet...hilariously funny.....

I now see what you all are talking about...this CYA dissolving issue. Now...I just got off the phone with Intex...they claim the 12R pump I just upgraded to can handle being used as a vaccum. "All you will need to do is hook it up to your skimmer". Eerrrr....anyone have suggestions for me on how to do this? I am trying not to BANKRUPT my poor husband as we are starting a new company and he just purchased a brand new 2006 Allison/Duramax GMC Dually with EXTRA CAB....can we all say OUCH to approx. 50K in a truck...>OUCH!

I work from home so, I am always busy one way or another....and I have to disperse my time! Oh...and I have PLENTY of distractions!

Thank goodness billing can wait! Hahahaha!

Thanks for the link.....

[aylad]

Hi,
I think Carl addressed the things I confused you on, except maybe the chlorine/bromine scale on your test block. You do not have a bromine pool, so ignore that scale. Just pay attention to your Chlorine side. If it's darker than 1 but not as dark as 2, then you have 1.5 ppm total chlorine.

Oh, and I second Carl's suggestion of the Pool Buster. Hubby gave me one for my birthday (I know, romantic, huh? but in his defense, I asked for it). It has completely replaced my vaccuum system, and is currently pinch-hitting while my Polaris is awaiting new wheels, and doing a fantastic job!!

Janet

[kittyprrrs]

Good morning everyone!

Ok, so we got the pool refilled and I added chlorine, ran the pump for about 4 hours and tested the water just now. Here are my 'new' numbers:

CL=2 ppm
PH=7.8
Alk=210PPM???? OMG!
CH=0
CYA=0

I read the poolsolutions.com "pool for dummies (is what it should be titled as)" hints and I am really beginning to understand all the mumbo jumbo! Yay!

So, now the obvious question is ...how do I lower my Alk? I mean...that is HIGH isn't it? For my little 20'x30" pool? I read that "lowering Alk is a pain in the patoot".

I know I need to add stabilizer but should I do this even though my Alk is high or will it lower it in the end? I know..I know...I'm slow on this but..I will get it! I promise!

[Watermom]

You are right that you need some stabilizer or you'll never be able to keep a chlorine reading. Your alk is high but we usually tell people who have vinyl pools that their alk can be anywhere from 80-180 so you aren't sky high above that. The link for lowering alk is below.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=191

[kittyprrrs]

Thank you Watermom!

Will be adding stabilizer immediately!