Safe swimming with elevated chlorine

[fcfrey]

There is a controversy regarding the "Safe" Chlorine level for swimming.

Most of what I have read says below 5 ppm otherwise chlorine can be absorbed through the skin and is hazardous to your health.

The rub comes when the CYA level is above 50 it takes a higher level (6 to 15 ppm) of free chlorine to sanitize.

HELP!!!

My bathing suit fading is minor compared to health problems from chlorine being absorbed while I'm swimming in a sanitized pool.

[CarlD]

There is a controversy regarding the "Safe" Chlorine level for swimming.

Most of what I have read says below 5 ppm otherwise chlorine can be absorbed through the skin and is hazardous to your health.

The rub comes when the CYA level is above 50 it takes a higher level (6 to 15 ppm) of free chlorine to sanitize.

HELP!!!

My bathing suit fading is minor compared to health problems from chlorine being absorbed while I'm swimming in a sanitized pool.

No controversy HERE! We think those other sites are full of beans--and we have the evidence to back it up.

"Safe" levels from government agencies and such are frequently contradictory--it's not safe to swim in water with FC > 3ppm, but it's safe to DRINK water with FC = 4ppm...See what I mean? It just doesn't make sense.

On Ben's PoolSolutions.com web site is an article documenting what happened in Parugway when they stopped using chlorine in drinking water to reduce chlorine related cancers. It worked, but the number of water borne disease deaths jumped to TEN TIMES what the chlorine hazard had been--and the incidents of water-borne diseases became epidemic. So are you more concerned about a VERY low risk from chlorine, or an almost CERTAIN risk from unsanitary water.

My choice is to take the chlorine risk.

[fcfrey]

Thanks Carl,
I hope you're not ready to have this moved to the "China Shop" but it seems to me like there are an awful lot of agencies and internet sites that make the recommendation NOT to swim in pools with an elevated cl level.

Waterbear was pinned down in his post "Smell chlorine w/ 0 cc?" to say go ahead and have 20 kids swim with a cl level up around 22 ppm. Again in your response "Best FC levels to swim?" “If you must swim in the higher FC levels, be sure to wear older bathing suits as they may fade.” ------ My response is ---- Are these responsible answers to people who accept the answers as “gospel”?!

I have read the article on Ben's site about Paraguay and agree that not using cl has a huge downside, but to compare a third world South American country's drinking water supply to our pools seems like a stretch.

In using that article to justify swimming in a 20+ ppm chlorine swimming pool we may very possibly be putting our families and guests at risk and vulnerable to liabilities I’m not ready to accept.

See these links: ----- and many many more.
http://www.health.sa.gov.au/pehs/top...vate-pools.htm
http://www.waterandhealth.org/health...pools_faq.html
http://www.waterandhealth.org/newsle...ol_health.html
http://c3.org/chlorine_knowledge_center/pools.html
http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=ask&s=pools

[CarlD]

I dunno...only the greenguide deviated substantially from our recs.

And they are more concerned with the chemical risks of chlorine than the biological health risks of NO chlorine.

In NO case did they look at chlorine levels while controling for CYA levels.

[waterbear]

Waterbear was pinned down in his post "Smell chlorine w/ 0 cc?" to say go ahead and have 20 kids swim with a cl level up around 22 ppm. Again in your response "Best FC levels to swim?" “If you must swim in the higher FC levels, be sure to wear older bathing suits as they may fade.” ------ My response is ---- Are these responsible answers to people who accept the answers as “gospel”?!

Exactly how was I 'Pinned Down"? If you reread through the thread you will see that I said it depends on the CYA level. As far as what is acceptable...Here in the state of Florida a commercial pool can be open when the FC is 10 ppm or less. This is also in the new edition of the CPO handbook. This is a big change from a short while ago when the FC had to be 3 ppm or less! Commercial pools are also shut down when the CYA reaches 100 ppm but ask most pool stores and chlorine manufacturers if you can swim in a pool with more than 100 ppm CYA and they will say yes! If the CYA levels are high you NEED higher FC levels to have enough active sanitizer in the water.

I told Madty not to swim if he/she was still shocking the pool and there was algae present. Also when he/she said his CYA was 28 I said to wait for a good sunny day to burn off some of the chlorine! This poster seemed determined to let the kids swim while still fighting algae in the pool after I said not to.
If you are going to use my name please get your facts straight!

[fcfrey]

First of all – My post was not intended as a “flame”. If I offended anyone, my apologies.

My intent was to open a dialog on a subject that seems to be very illusive. No one appears to be willing to back up their belief with hard scientific facts or evidence from the people who have the knowledge to say one way or the other.

Of the 4 sites I posted all mentioned to maintain a 1-3 or 4 ppm FC. The Australian site went on to say not to enter the pool if the CL level was above 4mg/L, if my math is correct that equates to 4 ppm. Several other sites not sited in my post say 5 ppm max. Admittedly they do not mention CYA levels ---- Why is that??? Perhaps it doesn’t matter in the context of their statements. Perhaps they don’t know any better. I do not know.

Believe me ---- I want to swim every available opportunity, but if we have shocked recently and the cl level is still high, I find it difficult to justify, or convince my wife, that it is safe.

[Madty]

Hey- I did ask about high chlorine and looked at many websites. Above 30 was were it started to become dangerous as far as irrated eyes and respitory(sp) problems. At 50 there were more dangers. At 1000 you can die within 5 minutes. Kid swam at my house when it was 20. I told all of the parents of any unknown risks and let them decide. Most kids had goggles. The one's that didn't had hurting eyes- After a couple of hours and eyedrops, all was ok. There is soooo much different information out there. Today it was 16 and no one swam- I will not let anyone until we get down to 5 or so. I have turned off my swg and the cl only dropped 4 from yesterday. Also, most of the high cl problems dealt with indoor pools that aren't well ventilated. I remember as a kid on swimteams finding it hard to breathe in deep after swimming inside all day. It would almost feel like you had a sore throat, and it took your breath away.

[fcfrey]

Thanks Madty,

Sounds like your looking for the same thing I am ---- definitive answers!!

I sent an email to the 3c site I posted. We'll see if they answer. I will post the answer if I'm not black-balled.

As you can see I got red mark --- I guess for dissent --- I guess I better let that go!!

[CarlD]

Any member can post a black mark against another--click on the scales on the right and you can rate THAT person at that moment. It doesn't necessarily come down from the administration.

[waterbear]

If I let the number of negative reputations that I've gotten upset me I would not be an active member of this forum. I just got one for a posting in a thread about filter sand but I was the only one that was able to provide any advice that actually helped the starter of the thread even though my advice went againts the beliefs of some of the Mods and Ben. Everyone else that posted in the thread just just kept asking, 'why do you think you have this problem?' It's just a way for people to express their opinions...not a big deal! Getting back to the topic of this thread. There is a lot of conflicting info about chlorine levels. Until very recently 1 ppm was considered enough. Now in many areas 2 ppm is the minimun for a commercial pool becase of new research on kill times for some water born illnesses. As far as maximum levels, that depends on the local health departments. I believe Texas has an upper limit of 8 ppm and if I am not mistaken Hawaii is 5 ppm. None of these take into account the CYA levels which are ususally permissable up to 100 ppm and most recommend a level of about 40 for outdoor pools from what I have seen. One commen requirement is an ORP reading of 650 mv if an ORP sensor is used. It is a known fact that higher FC levels are necessary at higher CYA levels to obtain an ORP reading of 650 MV....much in line with Ben's 'best guess' CYA chart. IF htere is no CYA in a pool then the 650mv ORP reading is obtainable with 1-3 ppm FC. As soon as CYA is introduced into the water a higher FC level is needed to obtain the 650 mv reading.