Securing a handrail

[Sumo1]

My pool deck is concrete and the pool is at least 20 years old. The handrail for my steps has been loose since we moved in. So loose, in fact, that I can easily lift it out. It's roughly a P shape with both ends going into the deck. The cored holes have no anchors or hardware of any kind in them and the clearance around the pipes is barely 1/32". When the rail is in the deck, the rear pipe has some tension on it, so that I have to push it down to make it go to the bottom of the hole. If I let go, it lifts about 1 1/2". I tried filling the holes with Fast Plug but with no room around the pipes, I just succeeded in filling up the inside of the pipes. Can anyone help?? TIA
Hal

Will try to post some photos.

[duraleigh]

There's two ways to fix it...permanently and removable.

Permanently....
Get a product (at HD/Lowe's) made by Sakrete called "Anchor" "Bolt and rail cement". It sets up VERY fast so be fully prepared before using it.

Then, if you don't have them already, you can get plastic escutceons that will cover the new cement you're about to pour. Slip them up on the rail.

Next build a brace that will allow you to quickly set the rail in it's correct position inside the holes.

Then, with the rail out, fill the holes about 90% full of the mixed anchor concrete (You've got about 1 minute from this point), and quickly place the rail down into the mix and resting on the prebuilt brace. Done. Give it another minute and slide the escutcheons down over your work and enjoy!

Removable.....
Essentially the same process except you'll need two rail anchors made specifically for pool rails and ladders. Make holes in the concrete big enough to accept the anchors with just enough clearance to get a little cement around them. If you get the hole too big, the escutcheons will not cover your work. Set the plastic anchors into the same mix and smooth and level it quickly. Then, simply place the rail inside the anchors and tighten the bolts onto the rail. You can then remove the rail anytime you choose.

Of course, the hard part is getting a uniform hole in that twenty-year old concrete. A 4" core bit and a powerful hammer drill makes for the nicest work but not something everyone has in their shop.

[Sumo1]

Thanks, Dave. Concerning the permanent solution, should I get all the hard Fast Plug out of the inside of the rails? Doesn't sound as though a plugged rail and a hole 90% full would go together too well. I don't close my pool anymore so I'm not concerned about removing the handrail. Should I be concerned about electrical bonding?
Hal

[duraleigh]

Oops! Good Point about bonding....I forgot. If you have a bonding wire there, by all means, it should be used. The inserts for the mounting brackets for the removable installation have lugs and the wire is pre-attached befor the concrete is poured. If you have no bonding wire there now, the only way I could see to get one is to use a concrete saw to cut a shallow channel in the existing deck in which to bury a new wire. Others may have a better idea.

[waste]

Just to mention,... there are anchors that sit on the deck (actually they are bolted to the deck) which will anchor the handrail -- bonding the rails is more difficult, but can be done, if the bonding wire is accessible.

[Sumo1]

Well, I haven't seen anything to indicate that there was ever a bonding wire. If I probe into the rail holes with a screwdriver, there only seems to be dirt below. Is bonding this handrail absolutely necessary? Where should I look for the anchors that bolt to the deck?
Hal

[imfignewton]

This post may be to late but it could help some one else.

The bonding is important. This link helps explain bonding and grounding
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_11/

Just copy and past the link


Ladder Anchors

I would use the brass anchors (better for salt pools) and an anchor jig that fits the width of your handrail. Cut out a rectangle using the jig as your template making the rectangle bigger than the jig but smaller than the escutcheon plate.

On the anchor jig there will be some holes, use these to put in two stainless steel bolts on the bottom of the jig (4" or more) with stainless steel nuts and lock washers on the under side and the top side. Tighten the nuts and lock washers so the bolts do not move. Next dig out your hole so that the bolts will fit with two inches room when the anchors are flush with the deck.

At this point you will need to determine how you are going to run the bonding wire. Choice one is to cut a saw joint behind the new anchor hole and run the bond wire in that and back to your equipment pad. Choice two is to put the bond wire behind the coping in the expansion joint and run the wire down to the best deck expansion joint to your equipment pad. If you do not have an expansion joint behind the coping or you have a cantilever deck then its choice one.

Next you will need a small level and anchoring cement (Home Depot or Lowes). Put tape over the holes on the top of the anchors. Set the jig in the hole and pour the anchoring cement around the jig and part way up on the anchors. You will have only a short time to adjust the anchors before the cement sets. Level the anchor nearest the pool with the existing concrete, the back anchor should be level with the front anchor. The back anchor will stick up a little bit above the deck but don't worry because the escutcheon plate should cover this. Make sure the anchors are also level from side to side. After the anchors are level and the cement has set enough to stay then mix up more of the anchor cement and fill the rest of the way. If you don't like the look of the anchor cement then leave the cement down two inches from the deck level and fill it with a matching material (concrete, concrete with cool deck, stone or what ever material matches).

If you are doing this and do not have any existing holes to guide you then you will need to determine the spot for the anchors. The best way to do this is to have the handrail you want to install and place it on the deck where you want it to go, make sure that if the hand rail is centered on the steps that you have room to comfortably step on the top step. If you do not have room then you will need to set the hand rail offset from the middle of the top step to give your self room to get in and out of the pool (usually only needed if your top step is to small). When marking out where to cut your jig hole in the deck use a yard stick. Lay the yard stick on top of the coping, overhanging most of it into the pool making sure one side is centered on the top step, then mark a center line. This just helps center the jig in the pool deck.

I may have rambled a little. Sorry

But I do hope it helps

[Sumo1]

Thanks, Fig. I've not yet decided what to do here. I'm certainly no electrician and I'm not looking forward to cutting the deck. I suppose one option would be to fill in the holes and forego the handrail but small kids seem to like it and I don't want to be a grinch! The water temp was 54F yesterday so I've got a little time to mull it over. I'll post when it's time. Finally getting some rain this week. Maybe I won't have to violate the water ban to top up the pool....
Hal