I've been thinking about copper...

[thilbert]

> The cathode can be a generic piece of sheet metal, non galvanized. Or
> copper, or better yet, titanium, but I doubt you have any of that on hand

I found a pure commercial grade titanium basket for $44:
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...sp?sku=5940100

Do you think this would be sufficient for the cathode?

> - Not the right form. Those are carbon fiber, which may or may not be
> graphite as such. The usual form is a slab of industrial graphite. A
> single crystal slab would probably be even better but would be just a bit
> more expensive...if even produced.

I also found a pretty good resource for industrial graphite. It's surprising
that it can be had for so cheap!
http://www.andale.com/store?view=CAT...=176000&mode=1

What I was thinking is to get the titanium basket and put the graphite in the
center of it, Apply electricity and wait. What do you think?

> Ya, probably 10 amps. You want more surface area and circulation than you do current. The problem you'll have is running out of copper atoms to remove from a given volume of solution around the electrodes.

10 AMPS?!!!?!????!!!?? Wow. Would a reduction in the amount of amps cause a significant performance penalty? My pool pump can recirculate the entire contents of my pool about 5 times a day, therefore I don't think that I would run out of copper atoms.

> Hmm, seems to me that couldn't possibly provide much copper, unless the whole thing disappeared...


It was a rather big bowl. I would say about 4 feet in diameter. Lot's of
surface area.


Would electrolysis work to also remove the iron in my pool using the same
materials (graphite and titanium)? If not, what should I use?


Here is the process I am considering taking:

1.) Drop pH to 6.8 -- any more and I risk damaging pool components (pump etc.)
2.) Add citric acid to bring iron into solution.
3.) Add EDTA to bind up the Iron and Copper
4.) Insert electroplating device into pool
5.) Test copper and iron levels regularly

Plausible? Or should I just live with the copper?


Thanks again,

Troy

[thilbert]

> I found a pure commercial grade titanium basket for $44:
> http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...sp?sku=5940100
>
> Do you think this would be sufficient for the cathode?

Hmm, that would be pretty nice.

> I also found a pretty good resource for industrial graphite. It's
> surprising that it can be had for so cheap!
> http://www.andale.com/store?view=CAT...=176000&mode=1

Hmm, be nice if they had cheaper though (i.e. no need for +/-0.005"
tolerance or tighter!).

Surface area is what reacts, so you need to maximize surface area,
especially with such a large volume of water. For the same reason, you need
to circulate the water pretty quickly, too.

> 10 AMPS?!!!?!????!!!?? Wow. Would a reduction in the amount of amps cause
> a significant performance penalty?

I don't know, it depends on how much copper is available for the electrodes
to remove. You could probably get away with an amp or less, especially if
your pump is slow.

Relax, 10 amps at 5V is only 50W. Your computer monitor consumes double
that.

Remember you're adjusting voltage to change current. You'll need a variable
power supply of some sort, and an ammeter. Remember to keep the connections
out of the water, especially on the anode side, else you'll defeat the whole
purpose of using graphite in the first place

> My pool pump can recirculate the entire contents of my pool about 5 times
> a day, therefore I don't think that I would run out of copper atoms.

I don't know about that. I'm thinking you'll be able to remove "all" the
copper roughly around the electrodes (maybe, ehrr.. 10 gallons worth?) in a
couple minutes, so you'd want the water flowing through, as systematically
as possible, to remove the copper.

In fact, the best solution might be to pump all the pool's water through a
section of 3" PVC pipe containing the apparatus. If you somehow have
another pool to empty the processed water into, you can systematically
process the entire pool without the cleaned product diluting what's there,
slowing the process down a lot.

> It was a rather big bowl. I would say about 4 feet in diameter.
> Lot's of surface area.

Ah, then that could do it.

> Would electrolysis work to also remove the iron in my pool using the same
> materials (graphite and titanium)? If not, what should I use?

It might, if the iron is in solution. Again, insoluble stains are best
treated with, well, stain removers...

> Here is the process I am considering taking:
>
> 1.) Drop pH to 6.8 -- any more and I risk damaging pool components (pump
> etc.)
> 2.) Add citric acid to remove iron in pool
> 3.) Add EDTA to bind up the Iron and Copper
> 4.) Insert electroplating device into pool
> 5.) Test copper and iron levels regularly
>
> Plausible? Or should I just live with the copper?

I would skip the EDTA, since you want the copper freely available for the
electrolysis.

Oh- one thing I forgot to think of, graphite tends to erode under
electrolysis. It shouldn't be a problem if you keep current density low,
but if you see black stuff flaking off that doesn't want to filter very
well... you might want to try a different method!

Tim
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I am drawing up some plans to build a device to do this. For those of you who are experts here, what do you think. Does this sound like something that is doable?

Drawbacks?

Troy

[duraleigh]

Hi, Troy,

I don't have copper issues but I'm fascinated by this thread. I was really intrigued by the idea of enlosing the apparatus in a pipe. Reminds me a little of the SWG configuration.

I can offer nothing of scientific value but I can follow the thought process and offer encouragement if that's any help.

Keep us posted

Dave S.