Pump Restart Issue when COLD

[elsie]

I didn't realize there would be such a large price variance. $20 for a simple rubber gasket? Unbelievable.

I guess I haven't taken the pressure gauge in during the winter because I need to drive 70 miles roundtrip to the pool store to get a plug to screw into the fitting when the gauge is on hiatus in the house. But, I should definitely do that. Are pressure gauges good for more reasons than knowing when to backwash? Or is it just to tell us when the sand filter has too much pressure? It wouldn't have anything to do with the pump motor?

When you talk about the "pump," you mean the motor, yes? I've always referred to the entire contraption--filter, motor, intake, discharge ports, etc. as the pump, and then call the engine of the works the motor. My motor was replaced with a brand new one in Spring of 2005, so it's not old by any means. It would seem a shame to rebuild it. I remember when I first inherited my pool 4 years ago and I used a guy on the side for servicing issues. He told me that a motor only cost $50. I think I paid a couple hundred in Spring of '05 to have it replaced as of course pool places triple the wholesale cost and then charge labor. If a motor is only $50, why not just buy a new one?

Any idea what would cause a small rattling inside the multiport valve? Does it have bearings?

With no technical know-how, I would never dare take the multiport off OR the motor. I have images of 20,000 gallons of water spewing everywhere, flooding the property and draining my pool: what a nightmare! Just don't have enough experience.

Thanks so much for your input/help.

[tenax]

elsei, answers below yours to the best of my knowledge:

I didn't realize there would be such a large price variance. $20 for a simple rubber gasket? Unbelievable.

that's what i say when the local pool stores want the $ they want for anything...(but as has been pointed out, pools in certain parts of canada including mine are very uncommon)

I guess I haven't taken the pressure gauge in during the winter because I need to drive 70 miles roundtrip to the pool store to get a plug to screw into the fitting when the gauge is on hiatus in the house. But, I should definitely do that. Are pressure gauges good for more reasons than knowing when to backwash? Or is it just to tell us when the sand filter has too much pressure? It wouldn't have anything to do with the pump motor?

while it's pretty, you don't need a plug...i just put a small bit of rag in where my pressure gauge screws in..it shouldn't have anything to do with the motor aside from if you're pump is not building pressure, in turn your filter won't be getting the pressure, right? i think the pressure gauge serves many purposes..almost more so whether it's up..or down from a normal pressure..i.e. depending on your pump size, 10 maybe the norm..or 20! i found that my "normal" pressure with my 3/4 hp pump was 15..it's 20 with my 1hp pump..if it varies dramatically (more than a few lb) from those norms, then i'm concerned...
When you talk about the "pump," you mean the motor, yes? I've always referred to the entire contraption--filter, motor, intake, discharge ports, etc. as the pump, and then call the engine of the works the motor. My motor was replaced with a brand new one in Spring of 2005, so it's not old by any means. It would seem a shame to rebuild it. I remember when I first inherited my pool 4 years ago and I used a guy on the side for servicing issues. He told me that a motor only cost $50. I think I paid a couple hundred in Spring of '05 to have it replaced as of course pool places triple the wholesale cost and then charge labor. If a motor is only $50, why not just buy a new one?

so if i understand your correctly, you had the "motor" replaced, but not the whole pump, right? so it is possible that there is something wrong with the pump forward of the motor..impeller, etc. again, if you're really concerned about the sound or it's not functioning properly, get it benchtested or someone in..whatever you are most comfortable with. i am assuming that you have unions (connectors) that allow the pump pipe to be detached at both ends on the pump (they can be screwed off?) and do you have a valve or valves (i have 2..one coming from the water feed from the main drain and one from the skimmer feed) to turn off the water flow coming into your pump if so, it's as simple to take off as setting your filter to "close" , turning off the valves for the pipes that feed water into the pump...basically, the pump is then isolated from the water feed..you won't get water all over, you won't have a bunch of air in your pipes.. you will get a bit of water between the valves and your pump that will run out..but it's not going to be a huge amount.


Any idea what would cause a small rattling inside the multiport valve? Does it have bearings?

i've had my multiport valve off to inspect it but i've never noticed any kind of bearing..but someone else could probably answer that better than i for sure
With no technical know-how, I would never dare take the multiport off OR the motor. I have images of 20,000 gallons of water spewing everywhere, flooding the property and draining my pool: what a nightmare! Just don't have enough experience.

you can only work with what you are comfortable with..but it really is simple..if you've isolated the water supply by shutting off the water inlet valve or valves i talked about from the pump (and in turn, the multiport valve)
there will be very little water to worry about


Thanks so much for your input/help.

[elsie]

Tenex, I'm going to print this off and bring it home and do some more sleuthing tonight before dark. So if I turn the water off and put the multiport position to "close," it sounds like I will not drain the pool. Good. When I clean out the 2ndary basket I always turn the water handle off, but water still keeps on coming, so I've never really trusted that it wouldn't keep pouring water. I'll bet that even though the water IS turned off, it's still gotta empty out what's there between the valve and discharge. I sure wish I understood all the plumbing. It would be nice to know it and have the confidence to fix things. If I decide to have a service guy out, heck I'll take an extra hour for $85 and have him take the thing apart so in the future I can do it. That would probably be a very good investment. Okay, so the pump is the impeller, I get it. The motor makes the impeller go. I suppose if I could stick my hand through the piping at the bottom of the 2ndary basket I would run right into the impeller. Not that I would want to.

You see, "old dogs CAN..."

[tenax]

yes, you are on the right track..actually, if you take your basket out of the "pump", you might be able to actually see the impeller..like a big plastic fan with fins (it would be right in that bigger size part of the pump housing just in front of the motor..that has cooling vents usually that cool the impeller on the shaft..where the impeller attaches to the shaft can wear out. (some use a keyway or groove) so that the impeller can make noise and slide back and forth a little on the shaft)

and you're right..if you have... and close the valves..(mine have red handles by the way..the ball valves as mine are called are pretty common you'll see on many pics) and shut off the multivalve by putting it to close (in effect..having the same "close the valve effect on the other side of the pump) then all that's left for water is what is in the plumbing and the pump that is between the the multivalve and the other valves..so yeah, you could well have a couple gallons of water. if you take off the pump, just carefully take it to wherever you can dump it by keeping it level of course..no point spilling anymore inside your shed or whatever than necessary. it should have a drainage plug or 2 on the pump so when you don't have to try to tip it upside down or anything..just put on concrete, take out the plugs and let it drain.

some people will try to drain it dry by simply running it with the drain plugs open.i cannot advise such a way.

[Poconos]

Elsie,
If you're sticking your fingers in the impeller area just make sure the pump cannot kick on. On the multi-port rattling noise, it is trapped air bubbles kicking around. Eventually they should blow out and it will be quiet. Depends on flow rate and pressures.
Al

[tenax]

yeah, that's a good point on the impeller..and make sure the power is foff at the breaker before working on a pump!

[elsie]

Well, on the coldest night of the season here in Alabama--when it was forecast to be in the teens overnight and I needed to run the pump--the noise in my pump upon start up was so loud I didn't dare run it. Fortunately I had wrapped all the pipes the week before in case of such an occurrence (or a power failure). Pool guy came yesterday. What it was all this time is that the inept pool service I used two years ago to replace the Sta-Rite motor did not replace the older seal, and it leaked water into the motor which destroyed the bearings. I did notice upon start up every time that a quick shot of water would shoot from the motor. So that was it. The wtaer killed the bearings. Apparently the Sta-Rite motor, made in Mexico, isn't of a real high quality, he told me, so I didn't bother with driving the old motor some 80 miles round trip to have it rebuilt at $70 for a back-up. Cost of replacement was $170 for the motor and I'm guessing $100 for the < hour labor (they'll bill me).

I was reassured by this service guy that in the event of a power failure in the winter on one of the nights it drops below freezing, that our freeze line is only a foot and even that never happens because our freezes are so brief, so not to worry about the skimmer or return lines. He said that wrapping the pipes and putting a blanket over the secondary trap will avert anything bursting. I'm relieved because it's so much easier not to have to deal with closing it each Fall. I can just do what I've been doing for four years which is wait for that perfect windless, dry day in early September to cover it and eventually take 10 minutes and $25 in various insulators to wrap pipes (I wouldn't cover it but for living on a heavily-treed lot). Have yet to find PVC foam that will fit over the 2" pipes, so it's piecemealed with that vertically and when I ran out and didn't want to drive to HD, a silver insulating wrap that I got at local hardware store. Then I used duct tape to keep everything hanging together. Looks like it belongs in the ghetto, but who cares in the winter?

I was also reassured to read recent posts on how long it generally takes for water to freeze. I can sleep easy now whether power or equipment failure.