Does this look like a stain from metals?

[ScottsdaleSwim]

Ohmygosh. That was so confusing.

I used a brown Vitamin C tablet so that's probably where the charcoal stain came from. I put a trichlor puck on it the other day and the stains didn't fade at all so lets assume it's metal.

The pool heater is shot..and disconnected..probably just prior to the sale of the house. I'm betting that's where the metal came from.

Okay. So- I'm draining the pool because the CYA is out of control.

This is where I start after refilling.
CYA to 50.
chlorine to 0
Ph to 6.0-7.0 but not higher
sprinkle approx 3lbs of ascorbic acid around pool and on stains
add 2 quarts of algeacide 60 (because I'm worried about algae bloom)
immediately add 6 quarts of metal out (is this what they call a sequestrant?

And this is where my confusion really begins
"In regards to a sand filter adding DE helped catch more particles, then again this may be more in the mind than in reality. With a 300 lb sand filter (9,000 gal pool) add enough DE, through the skimmer box, to raise the pressure by 1, this is about 3 cups, add one cup at a time and wait 15 to 20 minutes. Once you have started the ascorbic acid process you may notice, if you have a sand or small filter, the pressure rising dramatically and your filter slowing down. I back washed for 1 minute only after each of the first two 12 hour periods as the filter became blocked.

It is best to first backwash and then COMPLETELY DRAIN the pool after having run the pump for 48 hours non-stop. If you do not drain the metal will eventually fall out of solution and cause the stains to reappear via deposit.

I have to drain the pool twice? I have a DE filter so the sand filter part doesn't apply to me.
Can someone help me by picking up the process after the sequestrant??

I'm supposed to drain first to get my levels down right, and then drain again after the ascorbic acid treatment??
Should I treat for metals and then drain it even though my CYA is over 300? Chlorine is still at about 15.

I swear I read it more than twice. I'm just not understanding ...
thanks for your help.

[smallpooldad]

Unfortunately at that high a CyA my experience has been, no idea why, that Ascorbic Acid Method does not work very well at CyA evels over 70.

Assuming you are now refilling the pool the following would apply:

After you have added the Ascorbic Acid and the sequesterant run the pump 24/7 for 2 days.

After that:

Ideally you should drain a second time assuming that the stain gets removed, if not then do not drain (why because you removed nothing). This helps stop the metal from settling out, although it is true DE filters do a better job of catching particles, but eventually they will find there way back into the pool.

Wash out the DE regardless of if you do, or do not drain (but again only wash if the stain was removed), otherwise the metal will return to the pool.

I hope the above is clear enough.

Aloha

[waterbear]

A couple of thoughts on your problem....you said the heater was shot. If it is a copper heat exchanger and it has become damaged by improper water chemisty then it is possible that your staining is from copper. Copper will not always stain blue. The Jack's Magic website stain reference library page
http://www.jacksmagic.com/page.cfm?id=387
shows an example of a copper stain that is brown and looks like an iron stain (3rd stain on the page). Ascorbic acid can cause this type of copper stain to turn greyish (as also shown in the picture on the Jack's Magic page, Stain Treat#1 is listed as propriatary ingredients on the MSDS but I suspect it is either ascorbic or oxalic acid).
I don't know if you really need to drain and refill twice. If it were my pool I would treat the stains and then drain and refill the pool to get rid of the high CYA level and any metals in the water, then rebalance the water and test it to see if there is any copper or iron still present. If the level of metals left in the water is not that high I would just use a sequerant on a regular basis to keep them from restaining and keep my pH on the low side, 7.2-7.4. To treat these stains I would first get a Jack's Magic stain ID kit to find out exactly what I am dealing with since the vitamin C seems to produce a strange greyish color (which can indicate a copper stain) and there is some possiblity that the damaged heater could be the source of the copper.
As an alternative to the Jack's Magic products (which work very well but are expensive and can be lenghty procedures for some types of stains) you might want to try Proteam's Metal Magic first. They have an easier test and treatment but it is not always as effective. How to do their 'sponge test' is on this page
http://www.proteampoolcare.com/prod_...SpongeTest.pdf
and they state on this page that the treatment is not affected by CYA levels.
I have used both Proteam and Jack's magic products and they both work well. Jack's Magic has an extensive line of stain treatments that are very effective but they are not easy to use and can take several weeks for certain types of stains. Proteam's Metal Magic is not always as successfull but it is a less expensive option and easier. If it were my pool I woud try it first if the 'sponge test' had favorable results. Once the stain has been lifted it means the metal is now in solution in the pool and that would be the time to drain and refill. You will solve your high CYA problem and the metals in the water in one shot.
One more thing you might want to try on the stain to determine if it is metal or organic is to put some dry acid in an old sock and hold it on the stain to see if it lightens or changes in any way. If this is effective then acid washing (if the pool is plaster) might be an option (or last resort) also if the above two ideas don't work.

[smallpooldad]

Have a look at this thread it might help, especially the last section.

Aloha.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=2771

[ScottsdaleSwim]

Waterbear and smallpooldad- Thanks for the wealth of informaton. I've printed everything out and I'm heading over there tomorrow to take pics and fix that pool.
Couldn't do it without this board and the members!