Metal in pool

[newpoolgirl]

ok I will add chlorine. just wasn't sure if i had to wait a day or 2 after the sequestering agent. Also, can someone paste that site for the bleach calculation per the water test. I know it's on here somewhere but I can't find it. thx

[mbar]

Do you mean this chart?

Ben's 'best guess' FC/Stabilizer table for algae free operation of OUTDOOR pools -- as of July 2003 --

Use the info in this chart to help you figure out what levels of chlorine you need to maintain in your pool based on the amount of CYA (cyanuric acid, also called stabilizer) that you have in your pool. (FC = free chlorine)

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

[newpoolgirl]

I found it not too long after i wrote my last post. It figures..lol. It was actually a site called "the pool calculator". Anyways at 3pm i added 5cups of bleach(6%), then went to party. came home at 1030pm and tested and my FC and TC are still 0. my other #'s didn't change. i added 1qt 2c. 4oz. as to what that site calculated. guess we will see in morning if it does anything. My water was still cloudy. I just hope i don't turn it brown again. wish me luck cause i need it. What do you think about a clarifier?

[mbar]

I would hold off on the clarifier. You already have a lot going on in your water. Keep up with the chlorine.

[PoolDoc]

OK, I scrolled back to find your gallons -- 5,000. So, a gallon of bleach in your pool is about 12 ppm.

Verify with a cheap OTO kit -- turns yellow to brown with chlorine and will NOT bleach out with high chlorine -- that your chlorine is LOW and not HIGH.

Once you've done so, start by adding 1 - 2 quart (3 - 6 ppm) doses every hour till you get a chlorine reading. If you add 3 doses and still no chlorine, start adding gallons.

But be SURE to use OTO to test, so you will show high chlorine if it goes high! Other test methods can read zero when it's really high, due to bleaching.

Green pools (from algae) are no fun to clean up, but I'm not sure what's going on in your pool. Normally, in a vinyl pool, any sort of algal growth will be accompanied by (and usually, preceded by) a biofilm on the liner. You can detect this as a slimy feel to the liner. As long as that slime is there, you're not done with the algae.

I see discussion of various sequestrants and stuff. Many, many 'pool chemicals' are not really chlorine compatible. Some will consume chlorine like crazy. But without knowing EXACTLY what you've put in, I can only guess. It's really hard to clean up a pool with metals AND algae AND unknown chemical soup.

But, ya gotta keep chlorine in the pool, or stuff will grow.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[newpoolgirl]

Tested pool this morning after adding the bleach last night and strips showed it at 0 again. (If i dip a strip in pure bleach it shows color). Added more chlorine this am due to running out of bleach(will go buy more today). As soon as I dumped it around pool, I stuck strip in(for my own peace of mind) and it did show high chlorine level. It's going to be hot all week here in NE PA. I have been adding algecide as instructed on bottle, and I've never had a slimy liner. Can't find one with polyquat 60%(however you spell it) in it around here.

I have been running new sand filter all night. "I think" that it's less cloudy, but it could be just my imagination. Going to vacuum again today. When I did yesterday there was alot of what looked grey going into filter.

POOL DOC Chemicals ADDED:
32oz Metal out beginning of june
32oz Metal control middle june
32 oz Pool stain treat. (Used 16oz approx almost 3 wks ago (cleared water) got to swim finally for about 2 wks and then used other 16oz approx. on 6/30 when water turned brown. It did not clear this time with procuct.
16oz pool breeze metal treat on approx 7/2 water turned from brown to mint green on7/3, then just cloudy white on 7/4. This is where I am now trying to add bleach to get chlorine reading.

I know, a chemical bath.

[PoolDoc]

OK.

That's not so good.

Do you have exact brands and label names of the "Metal ...." products? Many of those products contain HEDP. Typically, a bottle will be an appropriate dose for a full size 20x40. If that's the case, you may have added a 7x overdose of HEDP to your pool . . . TWICE.

HEDP, in overdose conditions, can precipitate calcium phosphonate as an essentially un-filterable colloidal (really, really small particle) suspension. I did this once, to a 240,000 gallon pool, turning it into a pool filled with 'milk'. It took us two weeks with a massive vacuum DE filter to clean it up.

And, that's just the "Metal . . ." stuff.

Pool Stain Treat is a United Chemical product. Their products notoriously work like black magic: impressive results up front, with a horrible price at the end. They put sodium bromide in almost everything. In Pool Stain Treat, it would lower the oxidation potential of the sanitizer (by changing it to bromine) thus tending to reduce the staining. But bromide INSTANTLY changes your pool to stabilized bromine. They also like oxalic acid. But besides its toxicity (probably not a major risk, because of the way it's applied), oxalic acid has its own chlorine demand. I don't know how large the demand is (Chem Geek may), but it exists.

Honestly, at this point, I have no idea what's in your pool, or what it's doing.

If you have an above ground pool, the most straight forward thing would be to drain and refill. At least that way, we'd be working with a couple of known issues, rather than half a dozen unknown ones.

If you don't drain, we may find you can clean things up in a few days. Or, it may not clear all summer long.

Good luck,

PoolDoc

[waterbear]

Pool Stain Treat is a United Chemical product. Their products notoriously work like black magic: impressive results up front, with a horrible price at the end. They put sodium bromide in almost everything.

Ben,
Pool Stain Treat (and the the Pool Stain Treat spotting bags also) are oxalic acid. 1 lb treats 10k so in her 5k pool this is enough of an overdose to create problems It is a reducing agent just like ascorbic and also creates the same type of chlorine demand! This is one of their products from the short list that is NOT sodium bromide.