Need help with algue in a oxygen pool

[PoolDoc]

For Amanda's customer, it sounds more like a residential pool and at typical low bather load the chlorine itself *might* be irritating, depending on its level, but for most people it is not. Most tap water is chlorinated, so if this customer showers or takes baths and doesn't get irritation then they might not actually have a problem with chlorine (unless the tap water is chloraminated, which is monochloramine).

It's my suspicion that most of the "I'm allergic to chlorine" complaints -- except that it's usually a 3rd party who's allergic, like "my wife" or "my son" or "my customer" -- we get here are either psychosomatic in origin, or else misdirected blame. Otherwise as you note, you'd have a bazillion people who were complaining, "I'm allergic to my tap water". Unfortunately, I can't push hard to figure out what's going on, because the poster will either bail, or else be deeply offended, ie "How can you say that my darling wife is imagining it".

So, my suspicion will have to remain suspicion, and not conclusion. However, I still have seen ZERO evidence that chlorine ALLERGIES exist, and only suspect evidence that chlorine SENSITIVITY exists. (I have seen clear evidence that some people have more sensitive skin, than others do, to any sort of irritant.)

I just know that my wife hates swimming in our community center indoor pool over the winter because her swimsuits only last one season (elasticity gets shot) and her skin gets flakier and hair frizzier (though she never complained of irritation). In our own pool during the summer, none of these problems occur and her swim suits last for many years. The main difference is that the indoor pool has 1-2 ppm FC (sometimes more) with no CYA while our outdoor pool has 3-6 ppm FC with 40 ppm CYA which has the same active chlorine level as roughly 0.1 ppm FC with no CYA so a 10-20x difference. More than enough to account for at least the swimsuit degradation difference.

I agree that there's strong evidence that CYA ameliorates chlorine's effects on suits.

By the way, I'm beginning to wonder if some of the US pool fraudsters have migrated to Europe and started hawking "oxigen" or "oxygen" as a sanitizer or what not. If so, I'd say, good riddance to bad rubbish, but I'm sorry for the Euro pool owners getting defrauded.

[CarlD]

I've long suspected that people "allergic" to chlorine were, rather, sensitive to combined chloramines and other chemicals. I'm not as willing to go the psychosomatic route here...too many public and private pools don't follow our B-B-B methods there's tons of junk in them. I also see lots of people use ammonia-based algaecides and I wonder just how irritating those are, especially combined with chlorine. Nobody ever complains about my pool, and it's the only one my wife is willing to get into, because she's sensitive, not to chlorine, but to, well, you know, what's in OTHER pools. Me? I'm pretty well impervious as long as I use goggles and ear plugs for lapping. Have been all my life. Prior to my surgery, I was in our local YMCA indoor pool several times a week. They try very hard to keep it clean and I don't offer criticism or suggestions though I DO occasionally look at the maintenance log....However, I have about 3 more weeks to go before I'm cleared to swim again.

Carl

[giroup01]

"Oxygen" as used here probably means hydrogen peroxyde, popular in Europe as a "substitute" for chlorine/bromine.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks for that tip, Paul.

Is there any data you've seen published on the use of peroxide as a primary pool sanitizer? (I think we can safely hijack this thread -- the OP hasn't been back since her first post.)

[chem geek]

Hydrogen peroxide is not approved by the EPA as a swimming pool or spa disinfectant (though it is used as an oxidizer in Baquacil/biguanide/PHMB pools/spas), but it is approved for pools and especially spas in Australia, though the level required (50 ppm) can be irritating. Note that the Sanosil products are a combination of hydrogen peroxide and silver ions.

[CarlD]

Hi Richard!
Amanda is in Spain. Do you know anything about European use of H2O2?

Carl

[chem geek]

Commercial/public pools in many countries in Europe follow the DIN 19643 standard which is lower levels of chlorine (0.3 to 0.6 ppm without ozone; 0.2 to 0.5 ppm with ozone) with no CYA combined with coagulation/filtration and granular activated carbon (used to remove THMs and other DBPs, but also removes chlorine with each pass). As for residential pools, I don't know if hydrogen peroxide is popular in Spain.

[PMS SAyMI]

Hi Guys - wow this site is great my first post and what a response - thank you everyone. The reason I have not been back since is 2 reasons the first is work has been tremendously busy and the second reason is I forgot to save the site to my favourites and could not find the site again or the thread and no im not blonde.

Oxygen is potassium monopersulfate - although most pools in Spain are chlorine with a small percentage salt oxygen is used for the rich and famous if you like.

All the workers in my company use the photometers with tablets not drops as we think these are the most accurate in the market here is Spain, dip strips rely on eyesight and individual error.

Products here in Spain are terrible - still trying to find a product for mustard algae that actually works, have even tried importing from USA still waiting 2 years on for the license. Cant get buckman products infact never heard of them. We basically have to rely on chlorine, ph plus and minus and antialgas products we do have astral here it is the biggest company in Spain for products dont know if you know them.

I agree with most people that say they are allergic are not but now this pool / spa must stay as Oxygen, so need to find a solution that works with it.

To be honest was using stabilized Chlorine as when the cleaner is in (all morning 5 days a week) all the doors and windows are open leaving the spa very exposed so thought it would do no harm.

Ben - I dont want your pool fraudsters but thanks for the thought.

Look forward to hearing your continued thoughts, and will start a new post shortly regarding advise on mustard algae, really appreciate all the help guys as to be honest can be very hard staying on top of things in a country where products and information are so difficult to obtain. I really want our company to continue to hold the lead in this country and I think with the help of this forum it will be possible I cant tell you how many hours i spend researching different problems, solutions and ideas.

Amanda

[PoolDoc]

A couple of quick responses.

1. So far as I know, potassium monopersulfate is NOT a microbiocide -- and it's not a great oxidizer. If you don't have an effective microbiocide in that pool, it's not a safe pool!

2. There two products sold in the USA as "mustard algae" products -- ammonium sulfate or chloride OR sodium bromide. Both are used in conjunction with chlorine; neither has any effect on mustard algae alone; both CHEMICALS are available in Europe, just not via pool distribution.

3. If you want us to help you, you'll need to tell us the CHEMICAL NAME of the products available to you. Once you have, we may be able to work something out. Include cost info, so we can see what's practical and what's not.

4. Check and see if borax is available, possibly as a cleaner or laundry aid. (Sodium tetraborate *hydrate)

5. Test strips are not -- as you suspect -- very accurate. Tablets can be fairly accurate, though usually not as accurate as a titration.

6. If you are doing color matching, you need to test all your employees for color discrimination. In my work, I found that few staff people were actually color-blind, but that MANY (>10%) of guys were 'color-dumb', in the sense that they'd never learned to pay attention to color differences and so had to be trained to see the different shades. You can get some really nasty results if you have a couple of workers who consistently misread the Palin color blocks!

7. Just to repeat: if you are sanitizing the pool with Oxone (monopersulfate), you are NOT sanitizing the pool!

8. Let us know how much natural light the pool gets: it's very unusual to get algae in a pool unless it gets a lot of natural light.