PH keeps rising

[Devon]

3 pf the 4 return eyeballs are pointed slightly up, water does ripple, 4th one is a diverter eyeball pointed 45 degrees down, that was done to help the Kreepy Krauly get to the shallow end. No waterfalls , fountains etc. I did get the TA up to 100 a while back by adding a LOT of baking soda, after slowly adding acid the next day over a period of a few days, the Ph settled at 7.6 but TA was back down to 80.

The Protectall Supreme MSDS just says "Non-Toxic Cleaning Compounds & Bio-Degradable Surfactant". In hindsight, I agree with you, waterbear, a lesson learned here. Never heard of adding borates, will do some reading. My elementary chemistry knowledge tells me that whenever 2 molecules of HCl meet one molecule of NaHCO3, they react and create salt and carbonic acid (NaHCO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2CO3). Could easily be wrong, maybe someone can agree/disagree with this.

Thanks and I'll post back in a few days with updates on the water chemistry.

[CarlD]

Do you use a solar cover? If not, I'd consider getting one as it will interfere with the out-gassing from aeration that raises pH. Also, point your returns further down so there's little bubbling. BTW, is your pool new? If so, you may well be dealing with curing, which is typical of new hard-sided pools..and the curing raises pH, too.

You gave us current CH and TA numbers, but what were they before you drained the pool down, when you got the scaling? You shouldn't have scaling with your current #s.

I find I frequently can run TA far lower with stable pH--like as low as 60ppm, especially if I've seen pH rise.

Just some ideas...

[Devon]

No Solar Cover, returns do not cause any bubbling, just some ripples. I will point them further down. Pool was re-plastered in 1995. Before draining CH was 390, TA was 120, CYA was 120, pH 8.0.

Over the last week here is what I have done and the results:
TA was at 70 so I added 2 lbs of Bicarbonate every day until it reached 90. I add it when the pump first starts up and I add it by mixing it with 5 Gal Water, stirring extensively than using a home-made siphon to spread the solution all over the pool surface. When the 5 Gal bucket gets low I add more water and stir again then spray again, this is repeated 3 or 4 times until there is no more Bicarb that has not dissolved. After 4 days TA was 90-100 pH was 7.8-8.0. I then added 8 oz HCl a day and after 3 days the pH was 7.6 but TA was back to 70. I am being told by the local stores that at some point this should stabilize and not need Acid or Baking Soda added every day....

[Watermom]

I think you are making your bicarbonate additions more difficult than is necessary. Just dump the stuff slowly into the skimmer in small increments or in front of a return jet when the pump is running. No need to predissolve it and using a siphon to add it.

[waterbear]

I repeat IF THE pH IS RISING DO NOT RAISE THE TA, LOWER IT! If your pH is stable at 70 ppm then leave it there! Why are you bringing it up? Also, as Watermom said, if you need to add baking soda just add it to the skimmer or dump it in the pool and brush. It will dissolve very fast! If you lower the TA you mgiht need to bring the calcium hardness up a bit to maintain proper water balance (calcium saturation index) but if you calcium is around 300 you are most likely fine. Pool chemistry is really pretty simple once you get the hang of it but there is so much information out there and most people that work in the industry really are pretty clueless. IF you are not doing your own water testing I would strongly suggest getting a Taylor K-2006 and start testing the water yourself. It will be a LOT more accurate than anything you get at a pool store! Really!

[Devon]

I was advised to get the TA up to 100, let it settle, then adjust the Ph slowly down to 7.4-7.6, and that because I am using TABs - the TA should be over 80. Is that not correct ?

Calcium is around 220 according to Leslies.

I found a Dealer nearby that carries a Taylor K-2005, is that acceptable ? - Seems like it does everything the K-2006 does but uses color comparisons rather than drop counting.

[Watermom]

Follow Waterbear's advice above pH and TA. Calcium of 220 is ok. The Taylor K-2005 is not what you want. It can only measure chlorine levels up to 5ppm whereas the K-2006 can measure to around 50ppm. With high CYA like you report, you'll have to run high chlorine levels. If you haven't already done so, please read the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below about the connection between CYA and chlorine levels. You need to get the K-2006. You'll have to order it online. It isn't going to be available locally.