Lowering TA with Dry Acid Or Muriatic Acid

[CelticDaddio]

I am confused. In this thread http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=7546 you told me my TA was too high and to read the
"HOWTO: Step-by-Step Guide to lowering your alkalinity" sticky. Having read that I thought that aeration did lower the TA, but now re-reading I have a different understanding (or mis-understanding).

Is it the acid you add that lowers the pH that also lowers the TA? Do we then aerate to raise the pH without raising the TA as well? Is it the combination of these two things (aeration and acid) which effectively lowers the TA but keeps the pH at the right level?

Ed

Aeration doesn't lower TA. Aeration raises ph.

Check out this link.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=6746

[CarlD]

Ed,
The original sticky Ben put up is confusing and leads you to think the aeration lowers T/A. It does NOT.

T/A is connected to pH, and when you lower pH it pulls down T/A. When you raise pH, it bounces back up again.


BUT, when you aerate, you gas off carbonic acid as CO2 (like making soda flat) and that allows pH to rise WITHOUT T/A going up with it. Waterbear has a great explanation of the chemistry in The China Shop.

BTW, Ed, that's got to be the absolute A-Number One UGGGLIEEST home-made fountain I've ever seen! Congratulations, guy! (though I think the monstrosity Robert DeNiro gives Billy Crystal in "Analyze This" has it beat hands down!)

But it's clever and practical and should work GREAT to gas off the carbonic acid and raise your pH--and that's really all that's important.

Carl

[CelticDaddio]

Thanks, I'll take clever over pretty any day. And it cost me no additional $... Already had everything from when I moved my filter/pump/etc last fall (That was a pain!)

Ed

Ed,
The original sticky Ben put up is confusing and leads you to think the aeration lowers T/A. It does NOT.

T/A is connected to pH, and when you lower pH it pulls down T/A. When you raise pH, it bounces back up again.


BUT, when you aerate, you gas off carbonic acid as CO2 (like making soda flat) and that allows pH to rise WITHOUT T/A going up with it. Waterbear has a great explanation of the chemistry in The China Shop.

BTW, Ed, that's got to be the absolute A-Number One UGGGLIEEST home-made fountain I've ever seen! Congratulations, guy! (though I think the monstrosity Robert DeNiro gives Billy Crystal in "Analyze This" has it beat hands down!)

But it's clever and practical and should work GREAT to gas off the carbonic acid and raise your pH--and that's really all that's important.

Carl

[Watermom]

Ed,
Just to keep the threads from getting really long, it is best not to always include the whole previous post quoted in your replies. Of course, there are times when you need to quote a part of one and that is fine.

Thanks and enjoy your pool!

[NWMNMom]

Ok, good - so this clarifies the situation for our pool, which is just the opposite - I do NOT want to aerate my pool as it will make my PH rise, its too high already, I want my TA and PH to both go down so acid is the answer for me. It was just explained to me but a bit different route in another thread on TFP and this seals it. Good to know. (BTW, it likely got that high due to 10" plus of rain in the last 2 wks, the salt and the bleach - TA started out on the high end)

[CarlD]

Thanks, I'll take clever over pretty any day. And it cost me no additional $... Already had everything from when I moved my filter/pump/etc last fall (That was a pain!)

Ed

And it is very clever!

[Longgrove]

Update: I added 1/8 gallon of muriatic acid last night... pointed 3 returns upward and increased water flow to the hot tub waterfall (into the pool) to help aerate. Readings were TA 180/PH 7.4 this at 9 AM.
So added another 1/8... in addition to the waterfall and returns adjusted upward, I turned on the blower in the hot tub, and turned on Polaris cleaner pump (without cleaner attached)... lots of water movement. Readings at 2:30 are TA 140/PH 7.4.
Is this to good to be true? Seems to be happening fairly quickly and with far less than the three gallons the pool store told me I'd need. Should I expect a rebound? What do the experts think? What should I do next?

BK

[CarlD]

BK,

It sounds like everything is working EXACTLY the way it should. You are almost done!

Pool stores tell you to put in LOTS of chemicals--they SELL them to you. You put them in, overshoot by a mile your target, they sell you something else, continuing the cycle.

When I got my first pool I bought the book they sell "Taming The Pool Monster". It was useless and worthless. I don't even know where it is.

I test and check my water all the time, and stay ahead of problems--and I do NOT take pool store clerks' advice.

[aquarium]

I made this one:





The valve isn't even necessary so it could be simpler. Works very fast if you stay on top of the pH with the acid.

[sam98177]

I'm having problems with the pH being at the higher limit and the TA being too high:

Here's my test results from this morning:

FC = 6
CC = .2
pH = 7.8
TA = 200
CH = 300
CYA = 35

I posted earlier results in another thread, but I think I should have posted them here. I seem to can't lower the pH and TA much. I haven't tried the acid stuff yet.

Yesterday morning, my FC = .4 and the CC = .2 My floatie was almost empty and I added the pucks.

I'm using 4 3" Pace Pucks in a floatie, and I shocked the pool yesterday afternoon, with a 1.75 gallon of Clorox.

Anyways, I'm trying to get the TA and pH down to a better reading. I've seen the posts on how to do such.

My questions are: How much acid do I use at a time to decrease the pH and TA.

Where is the best place to get the dry acid. I know where to get the liquid acid, but I think I need the dry acid because I have a fiberglass pool, or is does it really matter?

I have DE filter, which was completely washed and filled with new back in May or early June.

After I can realize my pH and TA at a lower reading, I'm going to do the aeration thing. I like the valve jig that Aquarium made. I'll do something similar too. My return lines dont have threads, so I'll figure something out.

Thanks,

Sam